Tom's Hardware > Forum > Systems > Compaq > Compaq Presario R3000 power cord issue
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3 of the 4 are ground pins, which also secure the jack to the board. See "Laptops Restored"'s pics higher on this page.

Reply to Que
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Thanks for replying Que.
Actually my problem seems to be more serious than the bad solder of the jack pins. When plugging the ac adpter (without the battery wich is died) the led of the charger keeps blinking dimm and nothig happens when pushing the power switch.
So, I'm pretty sure that i have a short circuit on the board since the voltage between the positive and the negative pins of the jack is 0ohm.
I took apart the laptop and desoldered the jack connector from the board, measured the voltage between positive and negative sides on the board itself and had the same zero volt. What I want to do now is trying to change the capacitors you are talking about in your posts and my question is where these capacitors are located in the board and where to buy such capacitors (have you an url or technical specs of these capacitors). Another question is : may i temporarely replace these capacitors by non smd ones just for checking.
Thanks for any other advise.

Reply to Eddy25
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Update :

Have got datasheet of the neocapacitor and located 3 of them on the motherboard so the questions now are : wich capacitor(s) have i to replace, where to find them for selling and can i use a standard non smd capacitors (100mf) just for cheking.
Thanks again.

Reply to Eddy25
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Update :

Have located the other 5 neocapacitors on tne other side of the board. So wich one is concerned?

Reply to Eddy25
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All! No kidding, hard to tell which one, and even if changing them will help. Did you mean by "dim light on the charger" the light on the power brick, which should shine bright always, when on? Are you shure about the output of the charger itself?

Reply to Que
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HOURRA... Fixed.

It wasn't the neocapacitors but the diode closets to the power jack . It got very very hot when plugging the ac adapter so I desoldered one pin of this diode , plugged the ac adapter and here no more blinking led (yes the light on the power brick) pushed the on off button and the laptop restarted.

The deal now is to find a new diode or at least an equivalent one. On the diode it is written S4 4H. Have you any idea about it?
Any way thanks a lot Que for answering and helping.

Reply to Eddy25
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Looks like a Schottky diode after a google. Don't know where to get one, maybe there's one on some old r3000 board I have laying around. Is it for an amd board?

Reply to Que
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Yes it's an AMD board.

Reply to Eddy25
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Is there a number on the board adjacent to the part? I have 2 old boards (video problems) and could pry them off and send them to you, but find it a bit hard to locate the ones you mean, hardly any imprint on them. If interested, pm me your address.

Reply to Que
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Again thanks a lot Que for helping. Actually i discovered that this diode isn't very important since it is here just for protecting the motherboard against reverse polarity. So I desoldered it and have to take care about reverse polarity. Now the laptop is reassembled and working like a charm.

Reply to Eddy25
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Que wrote :

No, not compatible with a R3000.
You want a HP xb1000 Notebook Expansion Base (Expansion Port 1), with built-in speakers, hard to find. Another station is the XB2000, which can fit with an adapter, ask if the adapter comes with the station before buying one.
http://www.techexcess.net/docking-stations_170.aspx
An even better solution is the all-in-one media cable (XC1000), that does the same (without the speakers of course), but is it easier to find oil in your backyard I guess. The last time I saw one on Ebay it was sold in 3.2 seconds.



Thanks for your reply. I guess its time to buy another computer and ditch this one in the nearest trash can.

Reply to kmw1958
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kmw1958 wrote :

Thanks for your reply. I guess its time to buy another computer and ditch this one in the nearest trash can.


Noooo, sell the parts on ebay, drives, screen, ram, processor, half a new laptop's worth.

Reply to Que
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hi all

this is my first post in this forum so if i miss something or have not read something in other post my apologies.

i have been having a compaq r3000 ( r3265 maybe ) for some 4 years now. last year it started switching to battery while on ac and eventually turning off unexpectadly bcs the battery holds more or less 5 minutes.

bcsw i needed a relyable laptop i already bought one but i'm looking/trying to repair my old compaq . before giving in to spending for the new i had already tried opening it up but given my inexperience propably it did more harm than good.

as now, when connect it to ac it switches on but showes a blank screen ie black and the hard disk indicater showes no sign doesnt blink or etc. i do have a spare hard disk compatible but i'm not sure how to fit the plastic socket in front of it page 116 manual posted http://h10032.www1.hp.com/ctg/Manual/c00212209.pdf
in early posts in this thread and i don't know what this sockets serve for if not the obvious part of completing the circuit.

if anyone could and is willing to help me out with restoring my old laptop operational would be most apreaciated. thank to all in advance

Reply to rckldn
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Have you taken it apart completely, and put it back together??? Have you secured the cpu by a screw on the socket (intel) or by a lever (amd)? Placed the memory back? Another harddisk won't help, laptop should at least post and report a bad or missing harddrive, if present.
If you just get a blank screen, there's something wrong inside, or there's no power (enough) to start the computer. It does the same with the battery out?

Reply to Que
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Have you secured the cpu by a screw on the socket (intel) or by a lever (amd)?

It appears i hadn't ? funny bcs i took the laptop to two "tecnicians" and all they said was that mootherboard was bad.

now it's up and running, bought a new hard disk ( 160giga) bcs i was using the old one as external, installed suse linux and it goes just fine for now.

thank you so much Que for taking the time and helping .

Reply to rckldn

Hi,

Sorry to interrupt this thread but I am having the jack issue with the R3000 and just received my new jack in the mail today.

Do I need to clean off the old solder before soldering on the new one?

If so, how do I remove the old solder without special equipment like a pump?

Thanks in advance.

Reply to talstails
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No need to clean it, heat it up and put the pins through the board, if the solder blocks the holes. Not for minutes, it might run between the boards layers.


Message edited by Que on 08-04-2008 at 01:24:02 PM
Reply to Que

Hi,

So I just heat up the old solder with the soldering iron and put the new jack on with new solder over the top?

What do you mean by 'not for minutes, it may run between board layers'?

Sorry if that sounds dumb.

Reply to talstails
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Yes, that's how it is done. What I meant is, when you heat it up too much too long, the layers of the board and the isolation layer between it, might burn = turn into some kind of black goo, which expands and breaks circuits or causes shortcuts because the solder gets caught between the layers. About those layers, the mainboard looks like a single plate of plastic with electronics on it, but in consists of 4 layers (some even 6) of those plates pressed to one, with circuitry running all over and between the layers, hidden from the eye. Hope it is a bit clear, english is not my best foreign language.

Reply to Que

so just heat it for a few seconds then...

how do I know when I have heated it enough please?

Reply to talstails
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When your solder is flowing in a smooth way, leaving a shiny blob, and not a dull sort of silver clay. Hold your jack steady, so it does not move for a 10 seconds, giving the solder time to harden. Try not to exceed holding that irontip for more than 4-5 seconds max on a solder spot.

Reply to Que

How long do I melt the old solder for please?

Are you referring to the new solder or the old solder?

So do I hold the solderer for 10 seconds or for 4-5 seconds max with the new solder?

Reply to talstails
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You hold your soldering iron tip on the old solder for 4-5 secs., till it melts and flows and settles, then remove the tip and do not move the soldered parts for 10 seconds, to let it harden. If you move it before, the soft solder will break very easy, still making contact, but easy to break such a joint.
To add extra solder, heat up the spot to be soldered for 4-5 seconds, at about 4 seconds add the new solder, once flowed move away the soldering tip.
About the 4-5 seconds, can differ, depends on how your soldering is flowing.

Reply to Que

Hi,

Sorry to sound really dumb but I've never done this before.

Can you please explain to me the order of doing things?

I haven't pulled the laptop apart yet so what is the order of things once I get access to the motherboard?

Do I remove the old jack first or the old solder?

So you say to melt the old solder which is still stuck on the board for about 5 seconds. How do I take the old solder off then once it melts? Will it come off with the tip of the soldering pen?

You say not to moved the soldered parts. Are you referring to the new jack which is going to be soldered on?

Reply to talstails
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Can you please explain to me the order of doing things?

----Follow the video's to take it apart and rebuilt it:
http://www.r3000forums.com/viewtop [...] =53&t=9683

I haven't pulled the laptop apart yet so what is the order of things once I get access to the motherboard?
Do I remove the old jack first or the old solder?

---You need to heat up the old solder joints to remove the old jack, if done, put the new jack in it's position.
---You probably have to heat up the solder around the holes in the board again to get the contacts of the new jack through the board, there's no need to completely remove the old solder.
---Tthe old solder might block the holes, if you heat up the old solder and put a pressure on the new jack towards the board, you'll see the pin get through the board once the solder is molten and doesn't block the holes any more.
---Once the pins are through, you can add solder if necessary to give a firm contact.
To add solder, heat up the contact till you see the (old) solder melt, then add new solder to the pin or molten solder, don't put it on the soldering tip.

So you say to melt the old solder which is still stuck on the board for about 5 seconds. How do I take the old solder off then once it melts? Will it come off with the tip of the soldering pen?

----No need to take it off, if it sticks to your iron, tick it off against a hard surface

You say not to move the soldered parts. Are you referring to the new jack which is going to be soldered on?

---Yes, keep it complete still to let the molten solder harden, 10 seconds max.

If you are afraid to kill your board, then let someone at a tv repair shop do it, maybe some skilled family member or neighbour?

Reply to Que
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I have found several solutions to this problem. And, discovered that it is not worth contacting HP. For some reason they are doing everything they can to make these laptops extinct. This would be an easy fix if HP either sold the male side of the expansion port or started making a plug in for the expansion port that you could plug your charger into. After dozens of emails and phone calls I am convinced that they want these machines to die off quickly.
1) Get an xc1000 all-in-one cable. HP no longer makes it and if you can find one you may pay $200 for it (was $31 new).
2) Get an expansion base/docking station.
3) Resolder or replace the power jack. Involves taking the entire laptop apart.
4) Buy an expansion base, cut the connector off, connect the 2 power leads to your charger/power unit.
5) Expansion port mod: The far left copper contact is the negative. The far right is the positive. You can simply put solder on a wire, push it into the positive contact (not all the way), heat the wire up to melt the solder, and you have a positive pole for your charger. For the negative, unscrew the screw next to the expansion port, reattach it with a wire connector. That is your negative. Connect these 2 wires to a female power plug that fits your charger. Positive in the middle. I then glued a piece of plastic over the expansion port to protect and cover this up.
Your charge light won't light up with this mod, but the charge icon will appear on your screen.


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Reply to bbells

Hey my laptop battery will not charge, its been this way for a while now and i have been using the docking station to keep my laptop working because if i take it off the docking station the laptop last for only about 5 minutes. Is the docking station supposed to charge the laptop? the power cord of my laptop broke as well, it doesnt work or charge the computer because of some pin thats broken or something but should i buy a new battery?

Reply to sumguy44
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sumguy44 wrote :

Hey my laptop battery will not charge, its been this way for a while now and i have been using the docking station to keep my laptop working because if i take it off the docking station the laptop last for only about 5 minutes. Is the docking station supposed to charge the laptop? the power cord of my laptop broke as well, it doesnt work or charge the computer because of some pin thats broken or something but should i buy a new battery?



Your DC jack is broken on the laptop

Plugging and unplugging the laptop frequently damages the pin in the laptop..

Soldering rarely fixes it, its normally a new jack plug...


http://www.laptopjacks.com/index.p [...] QgoddBMLfw

is a good place to go if your US based

search on ebay too for cheap parts....

if you do not know anything about how to solder do not attempt to do it and get professional help - YOU WILL DAMAGE YOUR LAPTOP....

secondly your battery is proberly duff although the charging circuit on laptops is also known to have problems..

again - ebay for those too its cheaper and do not buy second hand batteries either..

Also its worth mentioning remove the battery for prolonged mains usage as it will shorten the life of the battery

now and again charge the battery and let it go flat

you will get better life then as it renews the battery

when you first get the battery - charge it over night then let it run flat and charge again and this gives its full potential

any other way loses life on the battery.


Message edited by Hellboy on 08-20-2008 at 09:20:51 PM
Reply to Hellboy

I have been having this problem (among others) and have scanned the entire thread to find the answer to my problem. I've re soldered the power supply's 4 pins and that didn't seem to fix the problem with me not being able to charge or work off of AC power. Working off the battery (while it was charged) is fine. I wrapped paper around the ac adapter's tip and that seemed to solve the problem. However, I took the AC power out and now cannot replicate my success with the paper trick.

I currently have a new DC power jack on order and am going to get that soldered onto the board to replace the original one. Do you guys think that will solve my problem? or does the paper trick suggest that my adapter may be the problem?

Reply to mulliganl
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mulliganl wrote :

I have been having this problem (among others) and have scanned the entire thread to find the answer to my problem. I've re soldered the power supply's 4 pins and that didn't seem to fix the problem with me not being able to charge or work off of AC power. Working off the battery (while it was charged) is fine. I wrapped paper around the ac adapter's tip and that seemed to solve the problem. However, I took the AC power out and now cannot replicate my success with the paper trick.

I currently have a new DC power jack on order and am going to get that soldered onto the board to replace the original one. Do you guys think that will solve my problem? or does the paper trick suggest that my adapter may be the problem?



Do not bodge repair your laptop..


1. paper is a fire risk
2. you will cause more damage

buy the connector and get someone to fit it for you as even to suggest trying to fix your laptop with a piece of paper suggests that your shooting at a target in the dark which is five miles away

Reply to Hellboy

Ok I think I may have a slightly different problem but it appears to be along the same lines as other post in this thread.

I have a Compaq R3000Z CTO (DP533AV). It seems to kill batteries about every year. My current runtime is only about 40 minutes to an hour out of a 6000 mah battery. So I think it may be the battery but I want to hear what you guys think. BTW this problem just started.

If my battery is below approximately 60% charge and I plug the charger (Kensington 120W universal N3 tip) in it charges for about 2 seconds and then switches back to the battery. In order to charge the battery I have to turn the laptop off and let it charge. If I take the battery out the Laptop runs fine on the A/C alone. Also if the battery is above about 60% I can plug the charger in and continue to use the Laptop and charge the battery. What gives? Is this a battery problem or Laptop Problem?

I also tried to reset the battery life per Compaq's instructions by leaving the Laptop on in the BIOS screen and letting the battery run down. This only took 2 hours. I then recharged it with laptop off and it only recharged to 5% and quit charging. I unplugged the charger and plugged it back in with the OS up and it charged back to 100% and ran for about an hour and 40 mintues.

I am totally baffled here.

Reply to 727driver
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727driver wrote :

Ok I think I may have a slightly different problem but it appears to be along the same lines as other post in this thread.

I have a Compaq R3000Z CTO (DP533AV). It seems to kill batteries about every year. My current runtime is only about 40 minutes to an hour out of a 6000 mah battery. So I think it may be the battery but I want to hear what you guys think. BTW this problem just started.

If my battery is below approximately 60% charge and I plug the charger (Kensington 120W universal N3 tip) in it charges for about 2 seconds and then switches back to the battery. In order to charge the battery I have to turn the laptop off and let it charge. If I take the battery out the Laptop runs fine on the A/C alone. Also if the battery is above about 60% I can plug the charger in and continue to use the Laptop and charge the battery. What gives? Is this a battery problem or Laptop Problem?

I also tried to reset the battery life per Compaq's instructions by leaving the Laptop on in the BIOS screen and letting the battery run down. This only took 2 hours. I then recharged it with laptop off and it only recharged to 5% and quit charging. I unplugged the charger and plugged it back in with the OS up and it charged back to 100% and ran for about an hour and 40 mintues.

I am totally baffled here.



The real problem is your powersupply....

You should never use a "universal" power supply on a laptop as long term use blows the power circuit in the laptop...

I know as i have repaired loads of laptops with this problem...

Universals do not work, your machine will pack up prematurely because of this... Go buy and origional or compatible...

Reply to Hellboy

Hellboy,

Call me stupid here but Kensington says this is an exact replacement to what I had. Also prior to switching to the Kensington PS the OEM one would get insanely hot when running the latop on A/C along. If it was charging the battery it would be too hot to pickup. Which is why I switch to the slimline replacement which doesn't heatup.

Do you think my laptop is toast already?

Why do you believe the Kensigntion PS fry laptops?

Thanks for the info...

Reply to 727driver
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727driver wrote :

Hellboy,

Call me stupid here but Kensington says this is an exact replacement to what I had. Also prior to switching to the Kensington PS the OEM one would get insanely hot when running the latop on A/C along. If it was charging the battery it would be too hot to pickup. Which is why I switch to the slimline replacement which doesn't heatup.

Do you think my laptop is toast already?

Why do you believe the Kensigntion PS fry laptops?

Thanks for the info...



If its got multiple plugs then its not and exact replacement... Its a hybrid powerpack..

I havent used Kensingtons, but all the ones that pc world sell and staples blow laptops...

Thats why its always worth getting the origional, on ebay they are pretty cheap...

Reply to Hellboy

I finally got around to taking it apart and resoldering the connections. They were in fact cold soldered, but it wasn't the problem. I believe it may actually be in the cord itself. Near the plug, some of the insulation is coming off, and around that area the cord is severely bent in many places. Is there a way to test the plug to make sure?
EDIT: I just tested the output voltage and it's perfectly fine. something else is the problem. could it be that I improperly resoldered it?
disregard that. there was a fourth connection to resolder, which I overlooked. It's working perfectly now.


Message edited by xparasite9 on 09-18-2008 at 04:47:10 AM
Reply to xparasite9

AHH YES.... 09-20-08
I too bought the r3000 POS unit.
Plagued for the last few months by the power issue, and found the info on this site. I looked at the xc1000 cable and the power dock, but thought that I should try resoldering the ac contacts before spending the money...
So here are my thought on the procedure, which worked, and I am using the computer to write this with..
On a scale of 1 to 10 I would call resoldering the pins a 6.5
Only because you have to completly dissasemble the computer, and I have never had this experience with a laptop. I printed off the HP manual and looked at it, but did not need it. You will need to disconnect several electrical connections thought the layers of parts, and keeping separate cups to keep the screws in will help. You can take a digital pic as you go to referance as well. Dont be in a hurry taking it apart, as it can seem strange when all the parts are not behaving as expected when dissasembling. I used nail polish and tape to label several parts that were unique. It looked like a pile of trash by the time I had it dissasembed to resolder the the 4 small connections.
Speaking of the connections- use a small tipped soldering iron. heat the connection, then flow new solder onto it. At first, I wondered if it was enough. Take your time and reassemble. DO NOT RUSH REASSEMBLY. Plastic parts do not reassembe as easy as they come apart. I am a failry stupid person, so I think that the average person can do this repair if they are not in a hurry, and can use common sense when taking things apart. I was a little scared to do it at first, but now I am glad I didnt spend any more money on this POS computer. Keep in mind that many laptops have the same problem with the AC solder coming loose. Really stupid repair for the amount of work to fix, but this computer is working now, so what the heck!

Reply to nerdclicker

I am finding it difficult to believe that I have to take the whole thing apart. Is it possible to solder just the tops of the pins after taking off the top plate above the keyboard?

Reply to firejewels

OK. Everything worked fine for a while. Two days ago it started screwing up again. I resoldered it again, but it's not fixing it. It's still a problem with those connections, but I don't know what. I suppose I somehow broke the solder connections. Is there a way to keep the jack from moving around so it won't keep breaking?

Reply to xparasite9
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Are you using a new jack?

Reply to Que

I have one of these R3000's too. The first thing that struck me about it was how many sub-models with hardware variations they made. But anyway I disassembled the thing and resoldered the internal AC/DC connector with no success so I ordered a new connector off ebay and am going to do it all over again but replace it this time. If that doesn't work you'll likely see the whole damn computer listed there soon. Why I didn't think to just check the pins and joints with a continuity meter before I closed it up is still a mystery to me.

Reply to Sunrider42
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I have a version of the power cord issue that is not addressed here.

1) initially I had the same problem of the computer switching to battery power even though the power cable was plugged in. I would unplug it, replug it, wiggle it and get it to work, and eventually that stopped.

2) so I soldered a new dc jack to the EXPANSION port to bypass the back input. And for 36 hours it worked perfectly!

3) but now, the NEW connection does the same thing! Whether I plug into the back of the machine OR the new input via the media/expansion port, the charge lasts only 1 second before switching to battery. This is not a wiggling issue. (fyi, the lighting bolt on the front of the machine lights up, despite some reports that it would not light when on A/C with this mod).

4) BUT, when the computer is on hibernate or off, the computer battery WILL charge. It's only once windows is up and running that it loses the ability to charge up. Does this make sense to anyone?

I don't understand how my fix worked for two days and then suddenly stopped working.

Any ideas?

Oh, and for what it's worth, the laptop works fine when I remove the battery (it's a new battery).

Thanks!

Reply to stkero
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I went through this with a Presario 2100, which appears to use an identical DC jack, so I'll offer what I consider a vast improvement over the HP design. The problem stems from the fact that, with the power plug in place, any contact with the plug transfers force directly to the relatively weak solder joints on the motherboard foil traces.

Rather than just replace the jack, I carefully established which board connection was + and -, then soldered a 4" long piece of 18 ga hookup wire to each, red for +, black for -. Leave the other end for now.

Then, run a 3/8-24 tap through the DC jack hole in the plastic case. Buy a female DC cord jack,(I believe it was 4.75mm barrel, 2.1mm pin), discard the cover, and thread the jack into the hole. It will be tight, as it's a metric size. I added a dab of adhesive for permanence.

With the other parts reassembled , bring the case close to the exposed wires, solder the red to pin, black to barrel, then put the case together.

Now any pressure or impacts on the power plug transfers to the case, not solder joints.


Message edited by wire2 on 11-03-2008 at 02:03:51 AM
Reply to wire2

Amazing - we are having the same issue. Sounds like a brand to avoid in the future.

Reply to Night Train

my e-mail address is patrat38 @comcast.net my question is does anyone know of a good repair shop in/or around annapolis md. i have the same problem with the power pin needing resoldering. i've had the back of the laptop disassembled all but the motherboard. i got scared and put it back together. can you help...

Reply to patrat38

My son and I have just used the snowy Sunday afternoon to resolve our power issue. We have followed the instructions we have read in this forum.
Indeed, you need to make free a couple of hours and organize the repair job, but it is not difficult to do. If you have doubts about your own capability, you could at least, take a picture of every operational step. We found it important to have about 6 little cups for the little screws, which you free at every operational step. Pay attention to loosen the various connectors. Some are tiny and vulnerable. We could not see if the pin (1) of the plug contact was loose, we just have made a “re-solder” and with success.
Also be aware of the tooling you need, as described earlier in this forum. Not many tools, but the right screw drivers though. And yes, the solder iron should not be too hot; we have used one of 25 watt with the appropriate solder.
I would advise Patrat to look for a smart E-guy to assist him, instead of searching for a repair shop.

Reply to Anonymous
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I have a R3000 and have the same issue. I think it is a HP's problem. Call HPs service and in my opinion it is their responsibility to fix . If many people call them and make an entry in their customer forum

http://h30434.www3.hp.com/psg/boar [...] ead.id=339

it would become a class issue and HP would be forced to fix. Any lawyers reading this ?

Reply to Wesman
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I have just bought a second-hand R3000 off UK eBay for my Grandson's Christmas present!!

It was sold as "requires new battery" but I have found that SOMETIMES the battery behaves OK and shows as being 100% (this is, of course, without the power cord being connected). But MOST of the time the R3000 will only operate with the power cord plugged in and if I remove the cord I get the message that the battery is critically low and that I should replace the power cord immediately.

This situation indicates to me that the battery must be OK but there is probably an intermittent fault caused be a poor connection or 'dry' solder joint.

Can anyone here advice me what is the likely cause and remedy and I think it must be something to do with the problem being discussed on this forum.

Any help would be greatly appreciated - Dave UK

Reply to Dave UK
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A (near) dead battery can show a 100% charge indeed, without being able to run the laptop for a minute. If your computer runs fine on ac only, the ac-in jack and connections are ok.
Put that battery in a freezer for an hour (airtight bag, or tightly wrapped in a plastic bag), rub it dry after taking it out, and check if the laptop will charge it, if only for a minute or so, indicating a working charging circuitry on the laptop.
My best guess is that the battery is dead indeed.

Reply to Que
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Thanks Que - But I have run the R3000 on the battery alone for more than an hour and it still shows a good charge! On another occasion I get the message immediately that the battery is critically low.

Is there any way I can test the battery with a meter as I don't want to incurr the expense of buying another battery unless it is absolutely necessary.

Reply to Dave UK

I have computershop here in london on.
We change the parts runs around $120 plus shipping.
Thanks
George

Reply to Anonymous

I finally decided to pull my R3000 out of the closet and try to fix it -- Had problems with it charging right after i bought it.. got frustrated and tossed it in the closet

Now i need a laptop for some software in my car.. so time to fix it

I replaced the connector on the laptop, but that didn't solve the problem...

I'm thinking about just attaching the cable directly to the mobo and calling it a day or something along those lines

Anywho, which pin is the positive, and which 3 are the negative ones?

I assume the center one is the positive... and the others are negative

Reply to Anonymous
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