Wall-Sized 3D Displays: The Ultimate Gaming Room - Page 3

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I want to use this monitor for 3D

htttp://www.ecoustics.com/avrev/princeton/

however I remeber the specs saying its a 60 Hz monitor at 1024X768. I cannot find any specs anymore since this thing is so old.

I run it maxed out at 1280X720 which is great.

My question is will this CRT with a refresh rate of 60 Hz give me the same strobing effect that the article mentions a 60 Hz DLP projector will do ??

Yes. ideally you need a monitor/project that is capable of providing 120hz refresh rate at your desired resolution. A projectors "native" resolution must be the resolution you use for stereo.
John

Doon1, your saying I will get the strobing effect with my 60 Hz CRT right ?

Why 120 Hz ? That seems expensive. The article states 75 - 85 Hz is okay.

120 Hz must be for extra extremely FPS right ?

[quote="anthonybuchanan"]
120 Hz must be for extra extremely FPS right ?[/quote

At 85 Hz on a CRT, it's pretty good, just like the DLP screen in the article.

At 120 Hz I'd imagine the glasses strobe so quickly that it must look perfectly smooth, but this doesn't have much to do with FPS - just eliminating the strobing effect you'd see.

Not unless we receive some further grant funding (or are paid to do it).

It's probably also due to the strobing effect. The glasses are creating a pitch black frame between each frame that you do see.

In regular video... even 24 frame-per-second film - there is no black frame inserted between frames for any appreciable length of time. So this is probably the main reason why higher refresh rates look alot better when you use shutter glasses.

Sync Doubling is described here:
http://www.3d.curtin.edu.au/3D-PC/index.html

But this is now an obsolete technique. It was a hack to get high-refresh rates from video cards which couldn't generate high frequencies. The NIVIDIA cards can do high frequencies (including up to 120Hz) in their sleep - so no need for the sync double technique.

I can't see it being cheaper as we bought the cheapest 1024x768 projector we could find for the article, and you're automatically doubling that expense...

But I'll look into it. So, two projectors, two polarizing filters, polarized glasses. Do you need anything special to hook the buggers up? How do you get the two separate signals to the projectors?
Are you guys saying that the Nvidia drivers can be set up to do it automatically through the two video card outputs?Yes, when you choose the 3D mode you get a drop-down with 10 options to set up the type of stereo.

I just came back from checking DLP prices, you are right, they are still expensive, I used 2 Lumenlab Evo LCD projectors $500 apiece, $30 replacement bulb (6,000 hour life). I do know of cheap DLP projectors, the AVS forums is probably a good place for info on the best DLP's. If you see some on sale for $450-$500 then you will know what to do with them.

The benefit to the dual method is the scalability, if you want 10 people to view the effect the cost is $6 more with the dual method. For a single person the shutter method is cheaper, IF there is a 140hz DLP out there that will not trigger the flicker issues, and IF you buy a pair of shutter glasses specifically designed for projection, if not the off state is too dark and image will not look good.

Look at the added cost of two projectors Vs. the price of several pairs of shutter glasses and associated wiring or batteries to let everyone watch.

If you set out to do the polarized it can save you trouble as a silver screen will be purchased and you will not have to purchase one later, you can still use the silver screen in any way possible, just it also functions with the polarized light.

On the subject of 2 LCD monitors, you can't tell me that it isn't cheaper and higher-resolution. 2 17" 1280x1024 screens on eBay will only set you back $250 or less in good working condition (I bought 3 broken ones for $180 total and will be repairing them into 2 working ones, cheaper if you have the skill), the mirror is only $40. Since likely you are running an LCD monitor anyway, just get a second and the half-mirror, the cost is much less that way as you have about 1/3 of the setup already sitting on your desk and you don't need to buy it.

Please go look at the links above, I posted some DIY dual Projection and LCD monitor setups.

Doon1: I have never heard of a registry hack, nor have I used one to enable this method of 3D, look in your nVidia control panel under the 3D settings and choose the appropriate method from the 10 or so that drop down.

NO Strobing: I will not use the shutter glasses. I get a distinct headache that pulses (migraine) when I view even 15" monitors at 60hz, how does making it 42.5 hz help anyone?

Yes you will see a strobe effect, pray you aren't epileptic.

I am currently using 3 19" CRT monitor all running at 60hz and I am not bothered in the slightest by flickering and I use these 8 hours a day @ work, 5 days a week.

I am very confused.

The 3D article has changed everything for me. I am definitely going 3D.

I cannot see though how in this forum people aspire to have an 8800 that can run up to $700 or more however the list of 3D projectors only lists sub $1000 projectors with 1024 and less resolution.

It seems if you have the 8800 and you are going 3D and also, 3D with a projector, then then you should invest in a more expensive projector that at least does 1080p.

The article say you can use the screen for mvies the regular way minus the glasses.

Good question! I am looking at the Samsung HL-T6189S DLP rear projection TV and would like to know if it would be compatible with the 3D shuttered glasses technique? This TV uses LED's rather than a color wheel (ie: no rainbow effect), has a 61" screen, a resolution of 1920 x 1080, a screen refresh of 120Hz, a VGA PC input, and it is very bright. Sounds like the perfect 3D display to me!

Has anyone tried this with a rear projection display?

Hi everybody! I have a PLV Z4 (LCD) projector & using HDMI, 7800GT. What setup would be the best considering it's an LCD projector? What's the ~cost?
TIA

I now this sounds silly, but there is a thing called Google.

Some choice words to type in might include 3D movies, shutter glasses.

Forums of the hardware manufacturers, perhaps any one of the numerous guides written on the subject of Stereoscopic 3D viewing/photography and projection.

Ugh, I should just leave.

I had purchased an Asus GeForce 4 TI 4600 delux with 3d stereoscopic glasses. Here is what I observed... (albeit I was using dated hardware)

A. If you wear glasses already, stacking the glasses makes it difficult to wear. (I can't wear contacts....)

B. Nvidia's drivers at the time and games that used 3D were few and the ones that were there were clunky and buggy at best. I recently played Far Cry with them and it was difficult to get it to work with the glasses. When I did get the game to play, It was really cool up to the point I got motion sick driving around......

C. Stereoscopic is for solo's ... sharing your experience with others in the room without glasses is the pits.... If you have enough to go around it is fine.

D. I didn't like being tethered by a wire and when I went to LCD screen they were useless. (both desktop and projector) I went with the LCD projector because I couldn't stand the halo effect the DLP projectors had.

Stereoscopic glasses a fun novelty but not for everyone. For me it was a great waste of money (for the glasses and Video card) plus the heartache of gettiing it to work properly. They have been collecting dust since 2002......

How about the drivers? That is more than half the battle.

[/quote]That is legitimate, I personally wear my glasses high on my nose and very close to my eyes, it is hard to get the shutter glasses to be on top of my glasses and still see through the LCD shutters.

Fair, did you actively search the nV website and Guru3D for the tweaks and latest drivers? I remember trying this on my 5200 a few years ago, aside from the piece of crap FX series chip being slow it worked.

Go back to my links to Barry Aldous and Planar. Two LCD monitors are required, but since it is a simple polarized filter they make clip-ons for $12 http://www.berezin.com/3d/3dglasses.htm#Polarized

See above, you can make a dual 19" LCD high-res monitor for 3D for under $500, using entirely new parts. If you currently use an LCD the cost is only 1 more LCD monitor and a mount and mirror. Good LCD's are currently under $200 new, used on ebay $150 or less.

The mirror is available for $40 for a 17" diagonal LCD http://www.telepromptermirrors.com/ The correct size is about 15"x10"

That card was likely too expensive true, I bought a $120 7900GS recently and it is a monster (I did put a Zalman with ramsinks on it and clocked it at 650mhz Core and 790mhz (DDR 1.58Ghz) RAM with a re-flash of the Firmware and a simple core voltmod).

A 7600GT is a good choice too, but the 7900GS is a killer card even stock. Basically it is a 7900 chip cut down to a 7800 level, imagine the performance.

The drivers are much improved, all I had to do was install the latest (93.81) drivers and the stereo drivers and I was playing Oblivion in 3D, Tomb Raider: Legend, etc.

You can do this with a standard hand mirror and two Monitors by the way (any kind) http://www.crystalcanyons.net/page [...] ewing.shtm
Just skip to the part where he holds up the mirrors. Use a "clone" setup with two monitors in the "nview settings" part of the nvidia control panel.

In the "Stereo Properties" section choose "Planar Mirror left/right" and then apply the settings.

Arrange the monitors and hold up the mirror. Once it looks completely awesome go shopping on eBay for another LCD monitor to build a Planar setup, it is far superior to the hand-held mirror setup.

nubie wrote:

How do these glasses work with LCD monitors?
assuming I have a 75 Hz refresh rate and 8ms gtg?

Cleeve, where was your projector set up in respect to you? Ceiling mounted, mounted behind or in front of you?

And how far from the screen do you sit for the best effect?

My old projector the Sharp PG-M20x is DLP and can display up to 200hz. Specifically for XGA it does 140Hz (see manual here http://www.sharpusa.com/files/pro_man_PGM20X.pdf)

You can pick this up now for about $350 , a couple on ebay at the moment.

This is probably the cheapest option yet which won't have any flicker problems.

I'm just about to get a new projector (currently on Sanyo ZLV -Z4) perhaps thinking of the BENQ W9000 (or the JVC DLA-RS1U)

but I'm keen to make sure these work with the stereoscopic display. (For quality projectors I don't think the passive polarised dual projector set-up mentioned is an option)

Does anyone know if an LCOS type projector (ie the JVC one above ) will work steroscopically. ie are the pixels quick to refresh.

Anyone know if the BEnq one is compatible.

Thanks

Cleeve, was the projector directly in line with you, but above & behind you, or off to the side?

Your article inspired me and I'm planning on getting your same basic setup running soon

The reason I asked was, I was trying to figure out where to put the projector, but it seems pretty difficult to get all of these things at once:
-100" screen
-sitting directly in the center of the screen (width-wise)
-not blocking the projector with your body
-not sitting too far away

The only way I could think of was either ceiling mounted, or setting the projector off to the side of you, which my be awkward if you're not looking at the screen dead center (especially with the 3d effect).

Okay, thanks for the tip

I was hoping to find a solution that didn't incur that extra $200-$250 expense (and effort) of ceiling mounting. I don't believe that was included in Cleeve's pricing of the sub-$1500 setup.

If you are wanting to go cheap, I think Newegg has a Universal Ceiling mount kit for projectors for $99... I am not sure that it works for all of them, but It might be worth a shot.

I was hoping to find a solution that didn't incur that extra $200-$250 expense (and effort) of ceiling mounting. I don't believe that was included in Cleeve's pricing of the sub-$1500 setup.

If you are wanting to go cheap, I think Newegg has a Universal Ceiling mount kit for projectors for $99... I am not sure that it works for all of them, but It might be worth a shot.You guys are shopping in the wrong places Monoprice.com has one for $17.

http://www.monoprice.com/products/ [...] t=2&style=

You can also get 25' and longer VGA cords for under $20, they are of high quality, I percieve no difference between a 3' cable and the 25' cable.

Just curious, I know the test was done with the cheaper DLP projectors but I was wondering if anyone has tried a 3D setup to the other extream? No money concerns how would it look in 3D using the more expensive equipment like with the tripple (3) chip DLP projector and the most expensive video card produced today? I bet it is the abosolute best 3D it since it does not use a color wheel and with super fast Pixel response times coupled with the fastest mhz a video card can produce...

It is interesting to note that in the 120Hz capable DLP projector category, there is currently a big gap between the DepthQ (800x600 @ 120Hz) and the next step up - projectors from Christie Mirage (3-chip, 1400x1050 @ 120Hz) or also from Barco. Don't expect much change from about US$50k for the lower models.

If you're interested in seeing what a high-end system is capable of, visit a 3D showing of "Meet the Robinsons" on a REAL D 3D cinema system - VERY high quality! These systems use a single 3-chip DLP projector running at 144 fps - usually a Christie CP2000 or a Barco DP100. There are about 700 REAL D systems around the world. Resolution is 2048x1080. Visit the REAL D website for a list of REAL D 3D cinema locations: www.reald.com

thanks for the input. actually, it's funny you mention the DIY projector project, as I built one already based on the old article on Tom's Hardware for building one with the overhead projector (I was looking all over lumenlab's website at the time). I did it on the cheap with old LCD's from ebay, but I had a hard time finding a used projector so bought a new lower-end one. The results are pretty good, I have it set up in a small room and built a homemade screen with a queensize bedsheet and cheap white shower curtains sewn together to make a 2.5mx2m screen (HUGE!).

I have read lots about people building enclosures for their LCD projectors to make them more visually appealing and more portable, but my engineering skills are lacking to go to that extent, and that's the only way I could see using two LCD projectors in tandem to be a practical cost for me currently, though adding an enclosure increases cost too. As for the mirror method with two monitors, I'm pretty happy with my 22" LCD and would be hesitant to buy a second 22" monitor I'd hardly use anyways, except for 3d gaming when I want it. I also watch a lot of television and movies on the computer, which would require removing the apparatus I suppose and I'm pretty darn lazy.

HOWEVER, after my tour in Afghanistan starting January I'll have some money to spend, so I'd love to see some new Nvidia drivers and figure out a practical way to implement this (likely with a new store-bought projector). I certainly have a lot more reading to do if I'm going to make an informed decision about which method to use (if any), so far I am only basing my information on what scraps I've figured out from posts in this forum. Hooking up some wireless shutter glasses with an inverter and installing a driver sounds just too easy to consider another method using mirrors, dual projectors, fresnel lenses or whatever else, unless it makes a truly dramatic difference (this is just in my house for fun after all, i'm not doing professional presentations or charging admission).