Wall-Sized 3D Displays: The Ultimate Gaming Room - Page 2

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Just a thought for those of us with less than 20/20 vision, can any spectacle wearers comment on the results of glasses on glasses or is this a contact lenses only affair time?

thanks optical10

p.s. How do I add an avatar?

Optics rule. Chicks dig the lasers and lenses.
-cm

LOL - The Gordon Freeman look http://bavatuesdays.com/wp-content [...] 4821_L.jpg

Sorry I can't work this Forum to add images or an avatar?

Cheerz for your quick reply, now I have no excuses for not doing this 3D thing - "Arh sweet surrender".

Optical10

You can get the inverter and emitter from 3dflightsim.com

I actually wear glasses and had them on for the entire review. The eDimensional glasses work great in conjunction with eyeglasses (mine anyway).

I wore my eyeglasses on the inside, and the eDimensional glasses on the outside BTW.

Thanks - I can feel the £'s demanding a recount before I order these 3D specs etc, just got to find a supplier this side of the pond.

cheerz OPTICAL10

Unfortunately, LCD projectors will not work. you need a DLP projector.

you can buy the glasses at www.eDimensional.com , there are authorized resellers on ebay too.

you can buy the inverter at www.3dflightsim.com

Excellent article, though there might be another way...

How about 2 DLP projectors, coupled to a dual-head card generating left/right images. Polarised filters can be used to polarise the light from each projector (eg vertical polarisation for left eye, horiz for right), and polarised glasses could be worn to filter the two overlaid images on the acreen for each individual eye. You would need to overlay the projection images carefully for best effect.

Advantages:
Better, possibly non-headache-inducing method, no flicker with the exception of DLPs standard rainbow effect.
Cheaper, lighter headgear.
"Stacked" projectors like this could also be used for a high-brightness standard screen by feeding the same image to both projectors and discarding the glasses.

Disadvantages:
Twice as expensive as the example in the article, because 2 projectors would be needed.
Do drivers exist for doing this yet? Again, the example in the article will probably have the edge here.
The two projection images need to be carefully overlaid for best effect.

Anyhow, just my 2c

Jas.

Do Standard matte Screens with a 1.0 Gain Work Well for this or Should I look for something in the High Gain? 1.5+?

I'm not sure about adding images, but I think you need 100 posts before you can add an avatar.

Cool..

One last question.. I hate to ask so many..

Would this Optoma EP739 work Well? It has 2,500 Lumens and DVI-HDCP for my home theater portion and it only costs $1,200.

http://www.optomausa.com/Product_d [...] oduct_id=5


Or would this Infocus IN34 Be better?

(Very Similar Specs but $200+ Less)
http://www.infocus.com/Products/Projectors/IN34.aspx

what about us ATI users? does it work with them?

Very cool..
-cm

Great article!

I've been an ATI fanboy for many years, but now I might have to reconsider the brand when I upgrade to DX10 in the near future...

I am a pilot, so I see "3D flight sim" every day, so the FPS would be my "killer apps". I guess people have tried it, so how was the 3D [b][/b]experience with scary games like Doom 3 or F.E.A.R.? Any dirty underwear anywhere, or did it not make them scarier?

Just so you know you can do this with LCD projectors and polarized glasses. There are many to whom the minimum refresh rate must be 120hz or higher, and also the added cost of shutterglasses vs a pair of polarized glasses. Plarized glasses range from $0.50 to $4 for a very nice set, or $10-15 for "designer" stylized models. You need not worry about breaking them and a lot of people can watch all at once.

Google for "Jm777 planar" to find my forum posts on forums.nvidia

I am also building a setup that will take any two LCD monitors and a <$80 mirror and make it 3D, this goes for any diagonal LCD screens, size doesn't matter (although the mirror will be more expensive).

I am making my setup with used/broken LCDs and it is on track for under $300 with 2 8ms 17" PLanar screens.

To use polarized projection you need a silver polarization-preserving screen, I got a 70"x70" model brand new (da-lite silver matte) for $142.

This allows me an 80" diagonal 16:9 display, even larger in a standard 4:3 layout.

I know everyone is brainwashed into the shutterglasses and anaglyph mode, but there are so many other options out there.

You can even remove the polarizing layer on an LCD screen and lay it on top of another LCD display, then set the nvidia driver to "negative" the monitor that has now turned negative itself, allowing true direct-view polarized glasses.

Please maybe cover the 4-5 other ways to do this, not just the generic shutter way, which has many caveats and may not be the most appropriate for all setups.

Edit, for the guy above me, I haven't tried yet, been to busy with world racing 2 and Tomb Raider legend, do you know the sneaking cutscene in the beginning (aka the only accurate chest physics in the whole game)? Well let's just say "they're real, and they're 3D, and they're spectacular!"

This and of course chest physics , or sports games might be of interrest

Heres an example which i find interesting. Has anyone worked with anything similar?

WHY invest all the effort in a 3d projection system and stereoscopic glasse for gaming purposes? The glasses bottleneck the effect to a single user. Why not just opt for glasses which incorporate stereoscopic features and eliminate the high-price of a projector?

Obviously the large screen will have benefits for the non-gaming/home theater folks (or several screens can replicate a large field of vision) BUT the cost differential (against the system in the article) for gaming ONLY is HUGE when compared to just glasses themselves.

I'm really curious what people think.

Note: A quick google lead to icuiti auctions listed on ebay, there are several competitors, i cannot speak or vouch for anything other than an antiquated (crap) ELSA stereoscopic glasses and nVidia bundle with a CRT over 5 years ago.

Check out the resolution though: 640x480

Glasses with twin LCD screens tend to have very limited resolution for the price. In the future, when they can make smaller high-res displays, it'll probably be a great option though... but for now, not so much.

Here are a couple links to Barry Aldous website, he has done polarized with LCD monitors and with DLP projectors.
http://www.aldous.net/photo/project08.htm

http://www.aldous.net/photo/project09.htm

He got the LCD monitor idea from Co van Ekeren (Mr. Co van Ekeren called it the "cobox" ), although Planar makes a setup they call the "stereomirror" that is a free-standing frame, not a box.

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Cobox.jpg

http://home.hetnet.nl/~wolkers1960 [...] index.html (4th picture down)

http://www.planar.com/products/fla [...] reoscopic/

I plan to try the frame, but I need 2 working monitors and I must compile them from broken monitors on ebay, so far I have 1 1/2 working monitors (one has a bad backlight inverter, so I need to find one for spares)

Sources for parts on the Monitor setup:

$40 for a 15x10 piece of the special mirror needed for a 17" diagonal monitor: http://www.telepromptermirrors.com/

Silver screens (be sure to get the silver matte surface): http://www.onlyscreens.com/versatol.htm

There are $144 100" diagonal 16x9 screens on that website, new direct from factory Da-Lite, high quality, my 70"x70" is built like a tank and has a free-standing tripod with full adjustment and a keystone eliminator arm.

Here is my thread on forums.nvidia, lots of nice links for projection there:

http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=31636

http://www.berezin.com/3d/3dglasses.htm#Polarized is the place to buy your glasses and polarizing bits.

As I say, dual DLP's are coming into the $500 price range, get two and use polarizing filters, you will see 1024x768 or 1280x1024 at a 50" - 100" screen size, and you will have 2 projectors when you aren't watching 3D. The glasses cost in the $0.50-$3.00 range and everyone can watch.

See http://www.berezin.com/3d/3dglasses.htm#Polarized for the glasses, and for the polarizing filters, the $15 polarizers are fine for 3" lenses on the DLP's.

I think for the average gamer a dual LCD polarized monitor setup would give the best results, they are very high resolution and only need the mirror posted above (get the correct size for your display, custom sizes on that link).

The direct-view monitor setup is inexpensive, literally the cost of 2 LCD's and a frame and mirror, also it doesn't take up much room on a desk, it just overhangs the second monitor. Since LCD's are so cheap and you probably already use one the cost is significantly reduced if you can find a used twin of your monitor on eBay for 1/2 or less the new MSRP, this coupled with the Nvidia dual-output mode enables true flicker and ghost-free images.


If you must do projection (can't say I blame you ), look above at Barry Aldous website for his setup, ANY DLP will work, you just need two and some inexpensive polarizers. Note that you can use $500 models and then when not projecting in 3D you could have 2 projectors for separate movies/rooms/multiplayer gaming or extra-wide-screen projection.

Like I say the technology is out there, but everyone thinks anaglyph and shutter, although the polarized setups have higher contrast than all but the most expensive shutter glasses ($200-$400), and are passive, inexpensive and suffer no timing or flickering issues (I get intense migraine headaches from refresh rates in the 60hz range, thus I would need a 120hz or higher, preferably 140hz, DLP projector and accompanying glasses, very expensive and silly considering the available alternatize).

My camera is finally working, I just need a USB cable now and I can get some pictures of all of the goodies I am working on. It is a special Fuji connector and I ordered one on eBay.

Just to be complete, I do have the option to select "Dual VGA output (Dep3D)"
but all I ever get is a dual image side by side with some brown spots on it and a text telling me I should see 3D in the spots. This image is displayed on my Center monitor only.

No matter what settings I apply, the result is always this dumb dual test image.

Just to be perfectly clear, 2 DLP with polarizing filters and a silver screen, plus the polarizing glasses is the same price as the way this article describes, possibly a few $xxx cheaper as you are using simpler technology and can source it anywhere (aka bone-standard DLP and the same old paper glasses from forever) Da-Lite has been making silver screens for I don't know how long (how long has there been slide projection or home movies?), like I link to the screens are plenty cheap $160 with shipping New from the factory.

We aren't talking about rocket science here, new DLP's are $500 and they don't have to be shutter sync'ed, plus you get 2 projectors, so even if you aren't doing the 3D you can have 2 screens going.

Any 3D worth having is the nVidia driver, and the nVidia driver loves the dual-output stereo with some polarization.

Not to mention there is no flickering and 100 people could watch for $40 worth of polarized glasses.

I would appreciate it if the author of this article tries again with $500 DLP's and polarization.

I hear people saying that "shutter is more compatible" I don't see why, the driver either works or it doesn't, I have had no problems, if one way works (shutter/anaglyph) they will all work (polarized/Dual/HMD etc)

?? Seems like we just walked into a conversation you are having with yourself, we need some context.

My point is that your setup is only limited by your imagination. And the Tomshardware article did nothing to help people think outside the "anaglyph and shutter-glasses" box. There are many ways to play, just try something for cheap, decide if you like it, and then decide if you want to setup a big one.

I wonder how many are turned off by the shutter glasses and then equate 3D with shutter glasses? Or anaglyph for that matter. Not cool.

I tried the stereo projection with 800x480 projectors and I want a high-def version now. So I am planning a DIY 15" or 17" LCD monitor-based Projector, see lumenlab.com for info. The idea is sound and the parts are cheap, these guys use Ikea spoons as the reflector, as hacky as that sounds it works and is a totally viable optical hack for a light-engine reflector.

We tested the Optoma HD72i - a 'similar' projector. It would work at 60Hz 3D, but not 85Hz 3D. i.e. flicker city.

The HD70 could be completely different - but is unlikely to be able to do 85Hz 3D since in the 45 projectors that we tested, none over XGA resolution would do anything higher than 60Hz 3D.

A CRT projector is WAY better than a DLP projector for stereo. They have a hight refresh rate, they're brighter, have better color, deeper blacks, and virtually no ghosting. there's is considerable setup time but once you have it mounted to the ceiling and properly focused then you're ready to go. They are more expensive than DLP but if you can afford it it's the only way to go.
John

Hello AW3D,
Although I've read that paper before (was it you that posted it stereo3d a couple of years ago?) I've found from personal experience that I got a better stereo experience on my CRT than my DPL. The APP that stands out the most is Microsoft Flight Simulator. I've never been able to completely remove the blue ghosting on the cockpit frame. It is also very evident in the spinning Nvidia stero setup screen. I never had the issue on my old Sony CRT. It could be that I had the top of the line Trinitron and an entry level projector. But as you stated projector cannons use different phosphors which could make all the difference in the world. I have seen a CRT stereo display a couple of years before getting my DLP projector and remember it being a much better experience. That could just be my perception though.
John

Yes you can send the signal to two seperate projectors. You mount then in an over-under configuration with each projector being able to be adjusted seperately from one another. A de-polorizing sceen is needed and can be purchased or made if you have the patience to do so for a fraction of the cost.
There is also an Infocus stereo projector available that is built from the X1. It's only 800x600 resolution but I thing a 1024x768 flavor is in the works. it has a 120hz refresh rate (60fps per eye). you still have to use shutter glasses but there is no need for any special polorizing filters or screen.
By the way, I built a 10' screen (8'x6') for $50. works like a charm.
John