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AMDZONE Chris's benchmarks have never been biased? He is very well respected.

if your gonna make that charge... u betta have some proof to back it up

Reply to POPEGOLDX

I've seen too many people bash AMDzone because it is AMDzone, especially Macheads who refuse to accept that Apple fiddled the benchmarks for the G5.

AMDzone may be biased, but any bias will be found in the articles and benchmarks; the name and content of the site has nothing to do with it.

"Some mice have two buttons. Macintosh has one. So it's extremely difficult to push the wrong button." - Apple ad. circa 1984.

Reply to CaptainNemo

Quote :

A whole whopping 50MHz difference (but 200MHz FSB) over a stock 3.2GHz NorthwoodC and it's completely slaughtering the NWCs. So even if Scotty was just a NWC with a 4x250MHz FSB it'd perform like a champ compared to a Northy. And we all know that the extre cache is going to make a difference too. And then there's SSE3 and a number of other little tweaks...

Yes... And if NW is capable of a 1Ghz FSB, then Prescott will certainly be capable. Besides, Grantsdale - if required - might have a 1066Mhz FSB and dual-channel DDRII-533... Now that looks great.

Having said that, a 20% per-clock boost sounds almost too good to be true indeed... We'll see about that...

:evil: Mephistopheles

Reply to Mephistopheles

Quote :

P.S. If you want an example of AMD fanboyism go to www.amdmb.com and you'll see the typical 'impartiality' of sites with AMD in their name.

I just did... aaaand...

AAAAAhhhhhhh! :eek: They compared a 3200+ on nForce2 Ultra 400 to a 3.06Ghz P4 on a Soyo i845PE Lite motherboard! How pathetically saddening! What about the 3.2Ghz, 800Mhz P4 on a P4P800?...

:evil: Mephistopheles

Reply to Mephistopheles

Quote :

Having said that, a 20% per-clock boost sounds almost too good to be true indeed... We'll see about that...

Actually I'd say more 20% increase in performance over the 3.2GHZ. That sounds much more logical and VERY possible.
Consider it's a 6% rise in clock, accounting for almost 6% increase in performance. Then you got the cache, which on average should yeild 8% more performance. (the extra 256K L2 had boosted some apps up to 30% on NW) Then consider the modified Trace Cache (finally increasing to 16K uOPS, though as imgod2u pointed before, it can issue only 3 OPS per clock, which might be problematic as you want as much as possible to fill the pipeline as you have one decoder), and SS3 with improved HT. Some apps may even recover from the slight downgrade in performance HT MAY have caused! Consider on average a 15% increase to be safe, but IMO 20% is very well possible.

--
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Reply to eden

the way hammer scales with MHZ... Prescott better be damn fast

Reply to POPEGOLDX

Prescott is going to 1066 Fsb. Tejas will have 1.2

Reply to HardWareBoss

It will be.

Reply to HardWareBoss

Quote :

They compared a 3200+ on nForce2 Ultra 400 to a 3.06Ghz P4 on a Soyo i845PE Lite motherboard! How pathetically saddening!

What's even sadder is that the older P4 actually won several of the benchmarks.

Reply to simwiz2

I need major links to prove me that 1.06GT is on Prescotts, THE FIRST ONES.

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Reply to eden

The first Scotty's will be 800 Fsb. 2004 they go to 1066 Fsb.

Reply to HardWareBoss

In your face AMD Doubters!!!!!!
amd can't catch up?? its too late???
AMD is not competitive???
AMD always playing catch up???
AMD is gonna be a slow budget processors.

IN your face
In your face
In your face

In your face AMD HATERS!!!!!!!!!!!!

Reply to amdchooser1

consider the modified Trace Cache (finally increasing to 16K uOPS, though as imgod2u pointed before, it can issue only 3 OPS per clock, which might be problematic as you want as much as possible to fill the pipeline as you have one decoder), and SS3 with improved HT

I still not sure if they are staying on 3 Mport or moving to 4 port.Hans devries in here website show a possibility credibility is low

I dont like french test

Reply to juin

they will skip 1.2 Ghz FSB.

I dont like french test

Reply to juin

Who hates amd?

*Listens to the crickets*

Hmm yah. Most of us like performance period. If intel is on top we buy intel, if amd is on top we buy amd.

Course there were some exceptions like when amd boards were catching fire and such, but for the most part ya know.

Shadus

Reply to shadus

Where did you find that info?

Reply to HardWareBoss

I never doubted the A64 & A64 FX would be good CPUs. What I do doubt is AMD's ability to remain viable as a company. You can't continually haemorrhage cash and continue to be successful. Things do seem to be turning around for them once again, though, so I'm not quite as doubtful as I once was. Makes me very happy that AMD will be around for a while longer at least.

 If you design software that is fool-proof, only a fool will want to use it.

Reply to Zoron

The one post that said, "AMD has never posted a profit" is entirely incorrect.

AMD has been around for many years, and hopefully will be for many more. I am pretty sure at one time it was larger than Intel was. (During the days of their 2900 bit slice processors.)

All things seem to flow and ebb. For ME Intel ebbed when they decided to ATTEMPT TO FORCE everyone to use RAMBUS RAM.

That was MY primary reason for guiding the company I work for away from Intel.

Currently Intel CPU's exist in only 5 of the 75 dekstop PC's that we have in use, and in the 7 notebooks that we have.

Everything else is being run on AMD Athlon and Opteron processors.

For anything that needs to be done where I work the AMD processors work well enough. They may, or may not, be the fastest processors available, but they definately are faster than the ones they are replacing and have worked quite well for us.

For ME as long as AMD doesn't screw up big time, I will be sticking with them. I tend not to chase tails and stick with what I have, as long as they are mostly competitive I am a customer.

(Case in point, the problems that Western Digital had with their 6gb and 8gb Hard drives! That put them off my list for several years, however; I must admit BECAUSE OF the Raptor they are my main choice again. I have been VERY HAPPY with that drive!)

Reply to jim552

admit your wrong AMD HATERS!!!

Reply to amdchooser1

*lick*

Find the amd haters and point them out and togeather we shall convert them to love it or something. *Yawn* I should be asleep.

Shadus

Reply to shadus

You're kinda trolling a little, you know that right? A little bit of grammar would go a long way in getting your point across. Citing facts is a better approach than calling others names.

That being said, I don't know why anybody thinks that they can answer these questions. This whole thread and the majority of this forum lean toward "educated speculation." BTW-that's a completely UN-oxymoronic term. One definitely can speculate in an educated manner.

One thing that is fact and is being ignored is that AMD still provides a viable price-performance competitor to Intel, especially when overclocking is accounted for (sticking to x86 for this idea). Buy a AXP TBred B and OC it to 2.2+ Ghz. For $50 you have a CPU at least equal to the lower end P4's at appx. 3x the price. Even if AMD can no longer press Intel in the high-end sector, their prices provide competition in the mainstream. Do you know anybody who needs a 4 Ghz CPU? Neither do I. Sure 380 FPS is better than 340, but bragging rights are the only reason why. Maybe someday software will need this much power, but not now. Need I remind everyone the pace at which Mhz are careening? 3 years ago, give or take a couple months the 1 Ghz barrier was broken. Now a 2.5 Ghz processor isn't enough? That is ridiculous. Premium performance costs premium money. Let me make an automobile analogy that will summarize my point. (I know it's cliche)

An Accord now costs appx. 30K and has appx 260 HP.
Supercars from Ferrari, Lamborghini, and others may have as much as 3.5 times that much power for as much as 15 times the price. Now explain to me why you need to get from zero to 60 in 2 seconds flat----ever (prolonged silence). Somewhere on the metaphorical price-performance curve I just described is a sweet-spot. It is not at the performance-at-any-cost end of the curve.

Who cares if the FX is faster than the 3.2 Imaginary edition or the Papercut, er Prescott. I also don't care if the 3.2C's destroyed the Barton and tore it limb from limb. My 2.2 Ghz TBred was the best pick for me, and the several hundred dollars left over went to component upgrades that were practical and cost-effective.

Feel free to retort with any comments on how technology's growth will prove my entire argument wrong and lower powered systems will go the way of the 386 in the next six months. I'll believe it when I see it.

Where there's a will, there's a way-even when it comes to screwing up.

Reply to justaguy

WE HAVE NOT EVEN MADE IT TO THE 64's YET HERE IS A AMD XP READY 2800+ CPU ROCKING THE WORLD OF ONLINE GAMING.
IF IT WAS NOT FOR THIS SYSTEM I WOULD NOT BE HANDING OUT DEATH TO ALL EVERY NIGHT IN " DAY OF DEFEAT " ONLINE.
I KILL MORE INTEL SYSTEMS EVERY NIGHT I PLAY DoD THEN YOU WOULD IF YOU WALKED OVER AN ANT HILL!!
SO MUCH FUN..........

CPU Properties
CPU Type AMD Athlon XP-A, 2083 MHz (6.25 x 333) 2800+
CPU Alias Barton
L1 Code Cache 64 KB
L1 Data Cache 64 KB
L2 Cache 512 KB (On-Die, Full-Speed)

CPU Physical Info
Package Type 453 Pin PGA
Package Size 4.95 cm x 4.95 cm
Transistors 54.3 million
Process Technology 6Mi, 0.13 um, CMOS, Cu
Die Size 101 mm2
Core Voltage 1.65 V
I/O Voltage 1.6 V
Typical Power 53.7 - 60.4 W (depending on clock speed)
Maximum Power 68.3 - 76.8 W (depending on clock speed)

CPU Manufacturer
Company Name Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.
Product Information http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processor [...] 18,00.html

CPU Utilization
CPU #1 0 %

CPUID Properties
CPUID Manufacturer AuthenticAMD
CPUID CPU Name AMD Athlon(TM) XP 2800+
CPUID Revision 06A0h
Extended CPUID Revision 07A0h
Platform ID CBh (Socket A)
IA CPU Serial Number Unknown

Instruction Set
AMD 3DNow! Supported
AMD 3DNow! Professional Supported
AMD Enhanced 3DNow! Supported
AMD Extended MMX Supported
AMD64 Not Supported
Cyrix Extended MMX Not Supported
IA-64 Not Supported
IA MMX Supported
IA SSE Supported
IA SSE 2 Not Supported
IA SSE 3 Not Supported
CLFLUSH Instruction Not Supported
CMPXCHG8B Instruction Supported
Conditional Move Instruction Supported
MONITOR / MWAIT Instruction Not Supported

CPUID Features
36-bit Page Size Extension Supported
Automatic Clock Control Not Supported
CPL Qualified Debug Store Not Supported
Debug Trace Store Not Supported
Debugging Extension Supported
Enhanced SpeedStep Technology Not Supported
Fast Save & Restore Supported
Fast System Call Supported
Hyper-Threading Technology Not Supported
L1 Context ID Not Supported
Local APIC On Chip Supported
LongRun Not Supported
LongRun Table Interface Not Supported
Machine-Check Architecture Supported
Machine-Check Exception Supported
Memory Type Range Registers Supported
Model Specific Registers Supported
Page Attribute Table Supported
Page Global Extension Supported
Page Size Extension Supported
Pending Break Event Not Supported
Physical Address Extension Supported
Processor Duty Cycle Control Not Supported
Processor Serial Number Not Supported
Self-Snoop Not Supported
Thermal Monitor Not Supported
Thermal Monitor 2 Not Supported
Time Stamp Counter Supported
Virtual Mode Extension Supported

Enhanced Power Management
Frequency ID Control Not Supported
Software Thermal Control Not Supported
Temperature Sensing Diode Supported
Thermal Monitoring Not Supported
Thermal Trip Not Supported
Voltage ID Control Not Supported
Motherboard Properties
Motherboard ID 02/13/2003-VT8377/VT8235-A7V8X-X
Motherboard Name Asus A7V8X

Front Side Bus Properties
Bus Type DEC Alpha EV6
Bus Width 64-bit
Real Clock 167 MHz (DDR)
Effective Clock 333 MHz
Bandwidth 2666 MB/s

Memory Bus Properties
Bus Type DDR SDRAM
Bus Width 64-bit
Real Clock 167 MHz (DDR)
Effective Clock 333 MHz
Bandwidth 2666 MB/s

Chipset Bus Properties
Bus Type VIA V-Link
Bus Width 8-bit
Real Clock 67 MHz (ODR)
Effective Clock 533 MHz
Bandwidth 533 MB/s

Motherboard Physical Info
CPU Sockets/Slots 1
Expansion Slots 6 PCI, 1 AGP
RAM Slots 3 DIMM
Form Factor ATX
Motherboard Size 240 mm x 300 mm
Motherboard Chipset KT400
Extra Features Q-Fan, CPU Overheating Protection, JumperFree, Stepless Freq Selection

Motherboard Manufacturer
Company Name ASUSTeK Computer Inc.
Product Information http://www.asus.com/products/mb/mbindex.htm
BIOS Download http://www.asus.com/support/download/download.aspx

Physical Memory
Total 1023 MB
Used 262 MB
Free 761 MB
Utilization 26 %

Swap Space
Total 2462 MB
Used 174 MB
Free 2287 MB
Utilization 7 %

Virtual Memory
Total 3486 MB
Used 437 MB
Free 3049 MB
Utilization 13 %

Chipset Properties
Motherboard Chipset VIA VT8377 Apollo KT400
In-Order Queue Depth 4
CAS Latency 2.5T
RAS To CAS Delay 3T
RAS Precharge 3T
RAS Active Time 7T

Memory Slots
DRAM Slot #1 512 MB (DDR SDRAM)
DRAM Slot #2 512 MB (DDR SDRAM)

AGP Properties
AGP Version 3.05
AGP Status Enabled
AGP Aperture Size 1024 MB
Supported AGP Speeds 1x, 2x, 4x, 8x
Current AGP Speed 8x
Fast-Write Supported, Enabled
Side Band Addressing Supported, Enabled

Chipset Manufacturer
Company Name VIA Technologies, Inc.
Product Information http://www.via.com.tw/en/apollo/chipsetindex.jsp
Driver Download http://www.viaarena.com/?PageID=2

BIOS Properties
BIOS Type Award Modular
Award BIOS Type Award Modular BIOS v6.0
Award BIOS Message ASUS A7V8X-X ACPI BIOS Revision 1003
System BIOS Date 02/13/03
Video BIOS Date 10/21/02

BIOS Manufacturer
Company Name Phoenix Technologies Ltd.
Product Information http://www.phoenix.com/en/products/default.htm

»§øÐ«Ñighthåwk™ Don't get mad at the player get mad at the game. Hackers drool and Skill's rule.

Reply to SoDNighthawk

What is your problem. Your system is not the reason you are winning, it is your skills at the game. I am sure if you played dod on my computer you would do just as well.

P4 2.6c at 3.25, Abit IC7-G Max3, OCZ pc 4000, 2X raptors in a raid, and ATI 9700 pro 390/324.

Reply to SJJM

Huh? What is your point? Why copy so much text?

Huh?

Where there's a will, there's a way-even when it comes to screwing up.

Reply to justaguy

I could no more compete in Day Of Defeat online if my Computer did not respond with split second timing on a High Speed broadband connection with external Hercules Game Theatre Audio rack, if I could not hear see and respond to the other warriors in game.
Your computers speed and responsiveness is directly related to how well you can compete in multy player.

»§øÐ«Ñighthåwk™ Don't get mad at the player get mad at the game. Hackers drool and Skill's rule.

Reply to SoDNighthawk

I would say that my system does just fine, it even has csa for the the network. So your saying you would do better if your system is faster? If that is the case then you would do a lot better on my system.

P4 2.6c at 3.25, Abit IC7-G Max3, OCZ pc 4000, 2X raptors in a raid, and ATI 9700 pro 390/324.

Reply to SJJM

Would someone with a P4 who's good at DoD please log on and give this guy a demonstration?

:tongue:

 If you design software that is fool-proof, only a fool will want to use it.

Reply to Zoron

I don't play DoD, but I'd be happy to frag him into oblivion in Enemy territory or Counterstike using my lowly barton 2500+ with ancient GF4. he will not know what hit him. I don't know who he is kidding, but any system capable of sustaining framerates equal to or higher than his monitor refresh rate would be exactly equally good. If your montiro can't do more than 100 Hz, than neither can your cpu generate frames faster for you to see. For DoD's "medieval" graphics engine, a Duron/Celeron with decent GPU would probably accomplish that, on anything but a 27" monitor. But hey, why shatter his illusion

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my wife. =

Reply to Anonymous

As I understand it, lengthinging the pipeline was necessary to make possible more clockspeed jumps. Hammer's pipeline was lengthened, but not by very much. I suspect this will allow it to scale clockspeed for a while, but it will not be enough to sustain it for very long. Because Intel's Netburst architecture has such a long pipeline, I see it as a more promising solution for the long term.

Athlon XP 14/16
hammer 16/18
P4 20/non disclose but i guess around 26
G5 18/non disclose i guess around 24

Still P4 have 50 clock speed advantage over any competitor.For the SOI fan around still think SOI bring high clock speed.

I dont like french test

Reply to juin

According to imgod2u, those two extra stages are not divided stages from the main 10, but some "packing" stages based on some mini core advancement included in K8. So, while it has 2 new stages, they are NEW, not divided, and thus, clock speed headroom increase is to not be expected.

Thats what i was thinking also, but if it was the case they will not show it in there little marketing PDF.I have never seen something about it.If they are packed stage that mean extra fonction that is not always call like long mode SMT time slicing ....As SMT or time slicing as been not develope at AMD is not possible.I looked back at some interviews with Dick meyer, i was interested in the intergration of time slicing in the K9 or maybe a revision of K8.

I dont like french test

Reply to juin

Quote :

admit your wrong AMD HATERS!!!

You admit you're a trolling idiot first. :tongue:

If you're going to troll, at least try to do it with a bit more imagination. And dredging up a thread from months ago which consisted of opinions based around available information at the time is hardly the way to do it.

SoD:Will you please stop posting all that crap that you don't even understand half of yourself. If the rest of us can express the performance of our systems without doing this, then I'm sure you can manage... :eek: .. That just gives me RSI in my mouse-wheel finger.

---
The preceding text is assembled from information stored in an unreliable organic storage medium. As such it may be innacurate, incomplete, or completely wrong :wink:

Reply to ChipDeath

*yawn* as always, he's a moron, don't believe anything he says, blah blah, get a second opinion before you believe anything he says or you may get burned if you dont know what you are doing (A newbie taking his opinion is like performing brain surgery on yourself... without using a mirror.)

Shadus

Reply to shadus

Quote :

Athlon XP 14/16
hammer 16/18

Excuse me but the K7 has 10 Integer stages, where do you pick up 14 and 16 for K8?

--
<A HREF="http://www.lochel.com/THGC/album.html" target="_new">This just in, over 56 no-lifers have their pics up on THGC's Photo Album! </A> :lol:

Reply to eden

ehhh you right little mistake

So 10/12
12/14

I dont like french test

Reply to juin

Quote :

You admit you're a trolling idiot first.

I must concur he’s found a place in my please don’t breed book.

-taitertot

I carry the legacy of one of your fallen; let us remember him fondly for he is always watching.

Reply to taitertot

Hmmm, actually it was about 15 stages for the FP pipelines, no?

--
<A HREF="http://www.lochel.com/THGC/album.html" target="_new">This just in, over 56 no-lifers have their pics up on THGC's Photo Album! </A> :lol: Edited by Eden on 11/27/03 10:17 PM.

Reply to eden

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