Tom's Hardware > Forum > Games General > Games General Discussions > Expert: 40 Percent of World of Warcraft Players Addicted

Expert: 40 Percent of World of Warcraft Players Addicted - Page 4

Forum Games General : Games General Discussions - Expert: 40 Percent of World of Warcraft Players Addicted

Tom's Hardware: Over 1.4 million members in 6 different countries available to answer all your high-tech questions. Sign up now! Its free!
Word :    Username :           
 

Last message on previous page:
I believe it is very addictive to many people...
I have 10 friends who stopped talking to me after they started playing WOW.. everytime I call them they would ask me to message them online (I'm a player myself, not addicted..yet) ..
We don't talk about anything else other than WOW now...

Reply to beggerking
Sponsored Links
Register or log in to remove.

[quote="Draxan"]

Quote :

The thing she cant distingish is there are a certain type of people who get addicted. Not all people get addicted just a minority.




I don't think the issue is about the people who are NOT addicted. It's about the ones who are. :) Many people are getting defensive about this issue. If you don't have an addiction problem, then what are you worried about? Even if it isn't 40% (which I think it is, I played WoW for two years and was a co-creator of a large guild. Players who weren't online in 2 days were considered "Inactive" or "not serious players" Most of the guild plays daily for more then 6-8 hours straight.) Even if the percent is 30, 20, or 10 that is allot of people. Those are the people who need help, and their friends and family want help for them. It's about those people.

I agree that it should be about those who need help, however don't you think that it would be better to take a look at the whole picture, rather than taking the easy way out and blaming the immediately obvious target, which is the activity they've fallen into? Taking a look at dependencies as a whole, rather than just going, "These games need a warning label!", and trying to make it sound like it was entirely because of WoW, when there is probably an underlying problem. It was like Hitler trying to rally up his country and blaming the Jews for underlying economic problems. Addressing the actual problem would be much more appropriate in the form of help, than pointing at a scapegoat or the outlet. If you go back to that interview, the doctor conveniently dodges the interviewer's question about whether or not she thinks it's the result of the player's family problems and adds in that Blizzard designed the game this way. Are they socially responsible to design games that no one has the desire to play?


I am taking a look at the whole picture. I think you misunderstood me. I am living in the middle of this mess. I think there is several different reasons people get addicted to video games, and I don't think it is ONLY the video game itself.

Yes, I think the game developers make addictive games intentionally. Why wouldn't they? They wouldn't be making millions of dollars every month. They are making millions because of the way the game is designed.

Yes, I think that certain people have more addictive personalities then others.

Yes, I think these people need to face their problems and not blame it on the game alone.

Everyone has problems, yes some people have more then others but we all have problems. I will get slammed for saying this but it's how I feel... I think that SOME addicted players play to escape their problems. I think that is a cowardly way out... it doesn't solve anything. It makes things worse. (Even if they aren't aware that it makes things worse.) I think it is selfish to withdraw from family and friends and only think of their own thoughts and needs. And I say this because I am married to someone who tells me daily that he doesn't care anymore. Which is part of the addiction. Drug addicts choose drugs over their families all the time. This is no different. They get to the point where they only care about the addiction. Which is why they need help, because they can't do it alone.... they can't even face their problems, how can they face their addiction?

I hope that there is players out there who can honestly evaluate themselves and care enough to just have a balance and to think of their families... parents, mates, kids, friends.

Reply to HopperFrogger

I agree with most people here though.. its our own fault.. not Blizzard's fault..

Reply to beggerking
- 0 +

I actually was referring to the doctor's short-sightedness, not yours. It'd be pretty hard for you not to see, actually experiencing it, but the doctor seems to be placing 90% of the blame on the game(s).

Reply to Draxan

As I read all these posts one thought keeps going through my mind – must reinstall WoW.

God I can't wait for Hellgate London.

Reply to Mrgreen371

I love how people freak out about this. Tell me one thing that she is saying that's false besides the 40% number which is totally her opinion and any numbers you throw out there are also only opinion. Everything else she's saying is true.

I'm addicted to WOW, and I would say any hardcore raiders are addicts. Please! Why get so upset? Does the truth hurt that bad?

OMG big f'ing deal! She says the game should have a warning label! So what?!

She says the game is addictive. It is!

She say's some people that play the game need help. They do!

She says Blizzard put's things in the game to make it addictive. They do!

You people need to chill, it's not like she said the games should be banned. She said peope should be aware that the games are addictive and maybe a warning label should be added to the packaging. WOW big deal.

Reply to thevinegru

Well said thevinegru.

Reply to Mrgreen371
- 0 +

It's quite sad to see how horribly skewed a persons perspective can be after witnessing only one side of an ugly ordeal.

I, for one, am a World of Warcraft gamer. Yes, I do play this game quite a bit, and find her persecution of the game a little hostile and biased lacking any kind of backing to her argument.

Of course she blames the games for the problems of the many people coming to her - she said in the article that almost all the people that come to her are bringing someone to her to help solve their loved one's problem(s). Unfortunately, many of these people make a horribly uneducated diagnosis that the game is the fault of this persons problem and this lady would not have gotten her start in this field of study otherwise. She said herself that most of these people find themselves obsessing over video games because it is a "variable ratio reinforcement" where people are trying to reach a goal.

Unfortunately, she sees this as the goal to win the game, but I would rather assess that many of these people are more aimed at the goal of being happy. Contentment is hard to achieve and for many of these troubled people she sees, I can almost assure you that their lives have a rift of emotional instability that they are seeking to wash away with something light-hearted in their life. And spending this time in a game with people they become friends with is undoubtedly something they find soothing.

I for one have made friends in World of Warcraft. Friends I have now even met in real life and visited/gone to hang out with. Other people who think more like me and I enjoy being around more than practically any friend I ever made in High School or College. I play WoW nightly for 3 or 4 hours to relax and enjoy myself, talking to friends, and having a good time.

From that viewpoint, now understand a little clearer why so many people don't want to leave these games. This "doctor" is telling people to leave something (some times, the only thing) in their life that they feel a connection with other people through. Imagine, if you will, that you had a hard time and found a group of friends to play cards with, and you did that in increasing amounts of time because that was your only chance to get relief in a day. And after a substantial amount of time getting to know your friends well and being with them on a regular basis, someone (most of the times, one of the people who originally caused you to be hurt in the first place) decides that you are not spending your time in the proper place and they drag you away from the friends you've come to know so well. Now might you see why so many members of the gaming community take it to heart when other people choose to interfere - because it's just that, a community.

On the other hand, a fair number of the people she is counseling/administering do have severe problems that require psychiatric supervision. There are people who do lose themselves, but that's not the fault of the game. People can lose themselves to anything that brings them happiness if they let themselves, and then yes, it is required that someone else intervene and this situations can and often do get ugly in nature.

For those of you who badmouth the game for being addictive, have you actually thought about what you are saying? You are mad at people for making a successful game. Let me think here, if you were to buy a vacuum, you expect it to work, right? If you were to buy, say, a car, you expect it to work right? So why is it that you expect people to buy a game... but not have it be fun? I mean, it is the fun of a game that keeps us wanting to go back and play it. I for one, refuse to play a game that I dislike.

Yet we remain the target of the majority of people who do not play games. I have never known someone who has once played a video game for enjoyment and been pleased that has ever accused the gaming community/industry for problems. It is always someone from the outside who hates games. What is that little saying, "we fear what we cannot understand?" I feel this is most definitely the apex of this argument against our most experienced but overrated Orzack.

Even if she did play a game, it would only to be to find every kind of exploit she could find as to blame the industry for problems. I for one, know that I enjoy WoW because I live in the countryside of Kansas. There aren't people for miles and miles, so I sought out something to occupy my time with that I could enjoy after working. And yes, there have been times I have stayed up late to play with friends because it was that much fun. I still made it to work (albeit groggy) or school (even moreso groggy).

Self control is a major factor in this argument that she neglects to acknowledge. She claims that over one million people are addicted to WoW alone, and that is on the basis that we are neglecting our family, food, jobs, etc. I neglect homework because I choose to. Thats my "choice". Blizzard isn't holding a gun to my head telling me to do it. Nor are they subliminally suggesting that I do that. I find homework to lack benefit and education, therefore I have made my choice to not waste my time on it. This isn't WoW or anything else telling me to. I don't have learning disabilities that I know of, and I believe myself to be fairly educated. Blizzard has had since the beginning of WoW a parental lock that can ban people from logging in during certain time periods (say, keep kids out of wow until 5:45, when most parents would like them to have their homework done by). Parents feed their kids' habbits by paying for the game and not administering it. Others lose their kids to it more by over-enforcing the restrictions. Its just the same as if you were telling someone they couldn't go out with their friends.

And as someone else most wonderfully pointed out, take the $15 a month cost compared to movies. One movie, or essentially (but not realisitically) one month of game time. How is this not a cost effective choice of entertainment? And for those of you who haven't ever played the game, it most certainly can be a wonderfully unique experience in team play and cooperation. There is a lot to be learned in the game, even so much as economics, working for money, etc. I've written a paper or two on that subject matter and it can be quite intriguing what people learn from a game.

Back to the point -

This is a game - a form of entertainment aimed to please people and help them relax from the stress of daily life. There are people who have exceptionally hard lives that find themselves a bit more enveloped by the comfort this game can provide, and if you start raining down the arguments against it, I suggest you witness how happy someone can be to spend a few hours with a friend. People think its wrong to spend 3 hours on a computer with a group of 10 friends, but not to spend 8 hours at night at a party because the media has this negative image of video gaming and people are getting upset at their loss of the spotlight.

These "loved ones" who have lost someone to a game, had problems before the game came around. The reason the game is so important is because the interest that used to exist before, no longer did, and a game is what took up the spotlight. Families can be mean, and neglectful, so can significant others. And it is when you are down and hurt that you find something to console yourself and that you find yourself drawn to video games to find someone else like you. I think the people who are accusing video games of stealing their loved ones are being as selfish as the people playing them and all parties involved need to sit down and have a chit-chat about what's really going on.



I'm sorry for this long winded rant, but it's something I've longed to say for quite a while.

/rant

- Alex

Reply to shiriah
- 0 +

Quote :

I love how people freak out about this. Tell me one thing that she is saying that's false besides the 40% number which is totally her opinion and any numbers you throw out there are also only opinion. Everything else she's saying is true.

I'm addicted to WOW, and I would say any hardcore raiders are addicts. Please! Why get so upset? Does the truth hurt that bad?

OMG big f'ing deal! She says the game should have a warning label! So what?!

She says the game is addictive. It is!

She say's some people that play the game need help. They do!

She says Blizzard put's things in the game to make it addictive. They do!

You people need to chill, it's not like she said the games should be banned. She said peope should be aware that the games are addictive and maybe a warning label should be added to the packaging. WOW big deal.



You are an idiot. It's her unprofessional approach which is bringing up the discussion. I'm not going to bother explaining it because there are 7 pages worth of posts that explain why, and it's not likely going to change the view of a dimwit who is so blunt, he is unable to distinguish between a discussion and getting upset. If we're merely judging by the broad generalities she's hinting at, then it's pretty obvious, and we certainly don't need a PhD to give us that insight.

Reply to Keffal

Why is it that so many people play for so many hours and yet the game is so boring? And don't tell me it isn't boring.
All of that time just walking to do one quest and turn another quest in. To fly back to town to sell and level up a trade skill. To practice fishing and lock picking?

Like I've said before I've spent 8 hours a day for over a year playing WoW and most of the time I think about how boring the game is, yet I kept playing.

I have found many other games boring, and guess what, I just stop playing them, but not this one.

So the point I'm making in this particular post is:
Is it because the game is just that much fun and enjoyable, that has people spending so much time, or is it something else?

Reply to Mrgreen371
- 0 +

Quote :

I played WoW for two years and was a co-creator of a large guild. Players who weren't online in 2 days were considered "Inactive" or "not serious players" Most of the guild plays daily for more then 6-8 hours straight.



This is interesting. I think this is one of the reasons why WoW is 'addictive' for some people. Its a group thing. Same reason why people join a street gang. It creates a sense of 'belonging'. And the group members (gang/guild) encourage each other to stay with the group by setting a high standard of commitment.

I agree that you can't blame Blizzard for creating a successful game, but i feel that they could do more in protecting the players against themselves. Maybe something like a time limit, a warning after 6h of continuous playing or a max of 40h a week. something like that.

Oh, i admit. I'm a WoW player too... :wink:

Reply to Sander
- 0 +

Why do people practice (I said practice, not play) in sports?

Why do people put themselves through education despite it being boring usually?

Why do people practice on musical instruments?

It's the training process of self-improvement that keeps people going, and in some cases the prospect of competition. In the game, it's virtual, but still nonetheless present. It's absent in every other game because there is no competition. You can't "beat" anyone with your time invested in it, therefore you grow bored and stop.

Even the least competitive individual playing WoW cares about his or her performance relative to everybody else. The whole reason they collect gear, the whole reason everyone seems to gravitate towards the more powerful PvP classes, is due to competition, and it's the same reason you have so many complaints on the forums about class imbalance. That is where the drive to continue is, and that's also why it seems so much like an addiction (and in some cases just becomes one), because there's always a bigger fish out there to match and to beat.

Reply to Keffal
- 0 +

Quote :

Why is it that so many people play for so many hours and yet the game is so boring? And don't tell me it isn't boring.
All of that time just walking to do one quest and turn another quest in. To fly back to town to sell and level up a trade skill. To practice fishing and lock picking?

Like I've said before I've spent 8 hours a day for over a year playing WoW and most of the time I think about how boring the game is, yet I kept playing.

I have found many other games boring, and guess what, I just stop playing them, but not this one.

So the point I'm making in this particular post is:
Is it because the game is just that much fun and enjoyable, that has people spending so much time, or is it something else?



Well, I've played this game for well over a year and I can most certainly say I have yet to find this game boring. The only thing that has the slightest chance of making it not enjoyable are other players in this game who feel like spreading misery unto others. I for one have absolutely enjoyed Blizzards storylines in every one of their games. No, they are not 100% original, and as a matter of fact, absolutely nothing is. Period. Yet it is a show of craftsmanship to take something that is NOT original and still make it enjoyable.

From the very first warcraft/starcraft/diablo, I have been hooked on blizzard because they know what they are doing, and they know they are damn good at it. I think the World of Warcraft storyline is absolutely intriguing, and unlike many "drones" who play wow for the popularity factor, I read every quest and I enjoy how the storyline completely falls together after you've played every class/race all the way through 60 and read every single quest, explored every single nook and cranny of the whole planet. I have yet to begin on this, seeing as i'm only 1/2 of the way on getting every class/race to 60. It's fantastic how well they crafted a world to explore and enjoy, and you call it boring?

Reply to shiriah
- 0 +

So for those of you who blame WoW for CAUSING the addiction rather than being the outlet of an inherent issue, let me ask you a question;
Howard Hughs who had Obsessive Compulsive Disorder, washed his hands constantly due to an unreasonable fear of microbial infection. From a third party point of view, you could say he had an addiction to soap.

Is that because of his disorder, or the soap? According to some of you, it'd be the soap possessing addicting qualities.

Reply to Draxan

Quote :

...
It's fantastic how well they crafted a world to explore and enjoy, and you call it boring?



I am honestly happy for you, that the time you spend is legitimate enjoyment. But for me and perhaps others (although who knows what the percentage would be) the time spent is more addictive in nature. Who knows maybe I'm the only one that finds it boring and keeps playing. I do have an addictive personality.

Reply to Mrgreen371

Quote :

RW: What about the games themselves? What do you think should be done there?

Dr. Orzack: I think there needs to be warning labels on MMORPGs like World of Warcraft, similar to warning labels on cigarettes. People should know that these games are potentially harmful.



Thats the most retarded thing I've ever heard. Anything can be potentially harmful, lets stick warning labels on everything. :roll:

Quite. I heard of a case where a person became addicted to carrot juice.

Should vegetables be sold with a warning label? Should my greengrocer set up a support group?

It's a bitch trying to get a sticker to stick to carrot juice, so it gets a free pass. All the sudden I'm seeing the big picture so much more clearly.

Reply to clue69less
- 0 +

Quote :

...
It's fantastic how well they crafted a world to explore and enjoy, and you call it boring?



I am honestly happy for you, that the time you spend is legitimate enjoyment. But for me and perhaps others (although who knows what the percentage would be) the time spent is more addictive in nature. Who knows maybe I'm the only one that finds it boring and keeps playing. I do have an addictive personality.

For someone who already knows the cause behind it, you sure are insistent that everyone else is abnormal and you are right.

Reply to Keffal

Quote :

So for those of you who blame WoW for CAUSING the addiction rather than being the outlet of an inherent issue, let me ask you a question;
Howard Hughs who had Obsessive Compulsive Disorder, washed his hands constantly due to an unreasonable fear of microbial infection. From a third party point of view, you could say he had an addiction to soap.

Is that because of his disorder, or the soap? According to some of you, it'd be the soap possessing addicting qualities.



I agree it's not a cause, be for me only a few games "TRIGGER" my extreme addictive personality, and WoW is one of those games. There are many games that do not. I'm not blaming wow. I've been dealing with my addictive personality for over 22 years and I know how to handle myself. So it's really not that big of a deal for me, but perhaps it is for some people.

Reply to Mrgreen371

He's moving from one problem to another and not facing the reality that is around him. Video games are for enjoyment of the time you have to give to it. He is ignoring the problems around him, instead of facing them like he should. To me this is more of a problem of time management, and i think i can clearly say this becuase i am ADD. i know more about waisting time than anyone else i know. He needs to change his priorities, drop the WOW for now and focusing on getting his life together. If he won't he's doomed to fail by his own actions, not by the programmers, producers, and ditributers of the videogames.

It's his own fault.

Reply to Fox_granit

I still think a lot of the overly defensive, pro-WoW/pro-Blizzard responses in this thread are missing the main point of this discussion. I don't think anyone other than Dr. Orzack is really advocating for the use of warning labels as a potential solution to this "problem," but I think that at the very least, we need to acknowledge that this is a serious issue and has certainly ruined lives.

I have a few main problems with some of the previous posts. I just think that the notion that "if it wasn't a WoW addiction, it would just be something else, probably worse!" is a poor argument. I agree that some people may be predisposed to addictions, but the question then becomes whether or not the individual ever comes into contact with that certain addictive game/activity/drug in their lifetime. Something tells me that your run of the mill drug addicts are in a completely different demographic than the majority of WoW addicts, although I don't have evidence to support this, it just seems like common sense. People don't wake up in the morning and say to themselves "I think I need to get addicted to something today." It just happens over time after being exposed to the activity in question. It also just so happens that WoW is incredibly time intensive, targetted at the appropriate audience (mostly males 14-30something), and it is really, really fun. So it's no surprise that at the very least, it is safe to say there are A LOT of so-called addicts out there.

My other beef is that some people are trying to legitimize WoW addiction by hypothesizing that "they have nothing else anyway, so it's okay." This is a really disturbing view of modern society. I believe people should do whatever the hell they want legally without interference, but I do have to say that it is truly an embarassment of riches that we must be enjoying in this Western world if some of us have the ability to spend ENTIRE MONTHS of our lives inside an ENDLESS virtual game, the purpose of which is now supposedly so that these people can "escape" their Western reality in which they allegedly have nothing.

Another note: The people saying things like "LOL I MUST BE ADDICTED TO FOOD" are totally missing the point that an addiction is destructive by nature.

Reply to TheNeverhood
- 0 +

Quote :

I still think a lot of the overly defensive, pro-WoW/pro-Blizzard responses in this thread are missing the main point of this discussion. I don't think anyone other than Dr. Orzack is really advocating for the use of warning labels as a potential solution to this "problem," but I think that at the very least, we need to acknowledge that this is a serious issue and has certainly ruined lives.

I have a few main problems with some of the previous posts. I just think that the notion that "if it wasn't a WoW addiction, it would just be something else, probably worse!" is a poor argument. I agree that some people may be predisposed to addictions, but the question then becomes whether or not the individual ever comes into contact with that certain addictive game/activity/drug in their lifetime. Something tells me that your run of the mill drug addicts are in a completely different demographic than the majority of WoW addicts, although I don't have evidence to support this, it just seems like common sense. People don't wake up in the morning and say to themselves "I think I need to get addicted to something today." It just happens over time after being exposed to the activity in question. It also just so happens that WoW is incredibly time intensive, targetted at the appropriate audience (mostly males 14-30something), and it is really, really fun. So it's no surprise that at the very least, it is safe to say there are A LOT of so-called addicts out there.

My other beef is that some people are trying to legitimize WoW addiction by hypothesizing that "they have nothing else anyway, so it's okay." This is a really disturbing view of modern society. I believe people should do whatever the hell they want legally without interference, but I do have to say that it is truly an embarassment of riches that we must be enjoying in this Western world if some of us have the ability to spend ENTIRE MONTHS of our lives inside an ENDLESS virtual game, the purpose of which is now supposedly so that these people can "escape" their Western reality in which they allegedly have nothing.

Another note: The people saying things like "LOL I MUST BE ADDICTED TO FOOD" are totally missing the point that an addiction is destructive by nature.



Actually you're the one who missed the point of the thread.

No one was saying addictions are harmless, or that it's right to be addicted to anything, we're just saying the root of the problem has nothing to do with WoW. If you can get so immersed in a virtual world, there are some other factors at work that are pushing the individuals into it, and blaming WoW over it is plain stupidity.

If your wife was cheating on you, do you blame her new lover, or do you look for the reasons that caused her to cheat on you to begin with? Most people are stupid, so they'll probably blame the other guy, but just sitting there idly blaming someone without correcting anything isn't going to solve a thing. And isn't that supposed to be Dr. Orzack's job? To solve problems, not point the finger at something in an attempt to gain publicity.

Reply to Keffal

Quote :

RW: What about the games themselves? What do you think should be done there?

Dr. Orzack: I think there needs to be warning labels on MMORPGs like World of Warcraft, similar to warning labels on cigarettes. People should know that these games are potentially harmful.



Thats the most retarded thing I've ever heard. Anything can be potentially harmful, lets stick warning labels on everything. :roll:

Quite. I heard of a case where a person became addicted to carrot juice.

Should vegetables be sold with a warning label? Should my greengrocer set up a support group?

It's a bitch trying to get a sticker to stick to carrot juice, so it gets a free pass. All the sudden I'm seeing the big picture so much more clearly.

Yeah, I know I was being unreasonably biased. I just couldn't resist the "should my greengrocer set up a support group?" line.

Reply to llama_man

I don't have any MMO's RPG's or anything. This is one reason why. They are the most addictive genre in gaming.

Don't feed me that crap about game developers not designing their games to be addictive, they do and will. You can get addicted to anything. I refuse to buy Oblivion or World of Warcraft. I am prone to addiction. Because of this, Blizzard can go fuck themselves.

Reply to Caboose-1
- 0 +

Quote :

I refuse to buy Oblivion or World of Warcraft. I am prone to addiction. Because of this, Blizzard can go fuck themselves.



I'm glad you think we care. You should join in and self-fornicate with a cactus.

Reply to Keffal
- 0 +

TheNeverhood....there are actually people "addicted to food" who become so obese that they risk losing their lives. I think this qualifies as destructive behavior and certainly has more negative consequences than playing WOW

Reply to kzk

Quote :

...

It's not much different than the scare tactic crap they use on people in college regarding alcoholism. Idiotic stuff like the following:

#If you have more than 3 drinks in a night you're an alcoholic, come to our meetings.
#If you drink regularly (I.E. every weekend regardless of amount) you're an alcoholic, come to our meetings.
#If you get drunk you're an alcoholic, come to our meetings.

.



No addiction specialist would say these things about alcohol. You're just making that up. And yes I know from experience.It wasn't an addiction specialist. It was the student life people at the college I attended trying to scare students. Your experience means squat to me since you didn't sit through the classes we were forced to, and apparently have reading comprehension issues.

And if you hadn't called me a liar I might have responded a little more nicely.

Reply to DuckmanSTG

Quote :

Because of this, Blizzard can go fuck themselves.



That doesn't happen till they release World of Sexcraft.

Now that will be an addictive title...

Reply to clue69less

Quote :

I refuse to buy Oblivion or World of Warcraft. I am prone to addiction. Because of this, Blizzard can go fuck themselves.



I'm glad you think we care. You should join in and self-fornicate with a cactus.I am glad you think I thought anyone cared. You seem eager to start an argument. There are plenty of fanboys in the CPU forum, you can get your fix there.

Reply to Caboose-1

Quote :

Because of this, Blizzard can go fuck themselves.



That doesn't happen till they release World of Sexcraft.

Now that will be an addictive title...You had to mention that, didn't you. Furries for everyone!

Reply to Caboose-1

You guys are still arguing about this?

Ad Nuseam?

Are you... addicted?


Bottom line:

People have OC disorders that prompt things like this
People want social interaction
People desire positives in their lives, gains, acomplishments

Games are designed to be pleasurable, to provide a release for basic needs
Games are a buisness. They need to make money

The Psychiatrist is addressing an issue that is present
All of here statements are true
The article seems to selectively quote her to illicit certain reactions (Example, a paraphrase of what she said, "UP TO 40%", not 40%, and, I believe, not a direct quote.)


So what does this all add up to?

Games are addictive. The MMORPG incorporates social interaction with a non-linear storyline that always leave ONE QUESt unfinished. You can always say "well, I will logoff once I do this", but then you have something else to do, like organizing stuff, or buying goods, or training "before you forget". It was pointed out that there are no easy points to really stop.

Also, as was pointed out about the doctor, yes she needs to label things as problems to get people to support her and her trade, but do you think it is wise to make a game that you can put down after a month or two of playing if they GIVE YOU the first month "free" and charge you for each additional month? How stupid would that be?

So, what is the solution to all of this? Blaming the games? No. I agree with most of you taht labeling the games themselves as the boogeyman is not the right thing. Alcohol in and of itself is usually not the culprit in making an alcoholic. It is the person that abuses it and comes to depend on it (not a perfect comparison, but bear with me).

Parents should be aware of these things and try to make it so that abuses like these do not happen. If the kid, or relative CANNOT control their online gaming, they should really seek help. If they can't do it on their own, they should have the people that care about them help them.

Everyone has to remember that moderation is the key. The game is supposed to provide entertainment in your life, not become it. (echo......)

Reply to Ninjahedge
- 0 +

Why the hell are people being offend if people says you're addicting to wow.

If you are being very offend about it, THEN you ARE addicting to it.

If I tell the person that he's an alcoholic because he drinks everyday, he would get offensive about it. Then he is addicting to it, simply as that.


For person who play for a year.

If you can do this above, then you're addicting:

1) Talk about wow everyweek
2) Read about it: magazine, internet, forums.
3) Fantasy about, even in bed(I don't mean playing with yourself).
4) Miss the game alots if you're on vacation or taking a break for a week.
5) Commited to it: gotta get off early from work, pissed off if they change your time, gotta get on 40-mans raid then other things, skipping meal.
6) Reducing your activites for wow (biking riding, going out for a movie, etc)

If you do one of a above, then you ARE addicting to it.



I don't really care what they said to me that I'm addicting, I have reallife friends playing on it and we're doing awesome :P. In fact before wow game, I was addicting to play other games like CS, AOE, C&C and diablo 2. When wow game, I only play this game.

Reply to hark659
- 0 +

I would go to the support group, only to observe the kind of people who actually need that kind of help

Reply to Krylos

Quote :

I think that classifying 40% of WoW users as addicted is a bit high though (maybe 10%?). The interviewee seems to have pulled that number out of thin air. Of course in her line of work, most of the people she meets will be addicts. More research needs to be done to learn more about this issue.



Let's do some simple math...

6 million players x 40% addicted = 2.4 million WOW addicts.

In order to qualify as an addict, how many hours a day would you have to play? Let's go real low and say that the average addict plays for 30 minutes a day. That would result in 1.2 million addict player hours per day. Now, we also need to account for the other 3.6 million subscribers. Let's say they only average one minute per day on average. Those non addicts would then account bump the total to about 1.3 milion player hours per day. That works out to over 50,000 players online at a time if you just divide 1.3 mil by 24 hours. I haven't seen any stats but there have been a few times lately when I asked my son to check and he's one of three people playing in the realm. Does Blizzard have 20,000 realms? Cause if not, the 40% estimate is off. Even 1% looks high by this back-of-the-envelope calculation. (I actually did use the back of an envelope too...)

If you were to get more realistic, I think you'd need to up the addict hours per day to maybe 4 at a minimum. An alcoholic that is able to maintain employment will still drink at least 6 hours a day. The Tom's WOW addiction interview talked about people that quit/lost their jobs, abandoned their families, etc. That kind of person certainly could be addicted to WOW but I'd expect them to be playing at least 8 hours a day, maybe up to 12-16 when binging. So where are all of these addicts? Why aren't thy playing? Are there a gagillion realms and a gogoolion servers?

Reply to clue69less

Quote :

Actually you're the one who missed the point of the thread.

No one was saying addictions are harmless, or that it's right to be addicted to anything, we're just saying the root of the problem has nothing to do with WoW. If you can get so immersed in a virtual world, there are some other factors at work that are pushing the individuals into it, and blaming WoW over it is plain stupidity.

If your wife was cheating on you, do you blame her new lover, or do you look for the reasons that caused her to cheat on you to begin with? Most people are stupid, so they'll probably blame the other guy, but just sitting there idly blaming someone without correcting anything isn't going to solve a thing. And isn't that supposed to be Dr. Orzack's job? To solve problems, not point the finger at something in an attempt to gain publicity.



No, in fact, you missed my point. I know nobody is saying addictions are harmless. Maybe I wasn't clear enough in my post. Nobody, including myself, is blaming the game itself or Blizzard. We live in a free society where we should be able to do whatever we want and create whatever we want within the scope of the law.

I was acknowledging that certain people are predisposed to addictions, but I totally disagree with the leap that you are making. You're claiming that WoW addiction is exclusive to people with "other factors" at work in their lives that bring the addiction on. Of course this might be the case with many WoW addicts. My question is that isn't it possible that some people, especially kids out there, were leading fairly "typical" lives without any of these "other factors" at work, but just got pulled into the game over time because they got so wrapped up in it?

Here are some things we can agree on:

1.) Building a good WoW character is very time consuming.
2.) To some people, WoW is a very fun game.
3.) Too much of any fun thing can lead to a potentially harmful habit.

I think given the right individual personality, these factors can lead to WoW addiction. This isn't to say that these people had lots of screwed up things going on in their lives.

Someone earlier in the thread mentioned that they were losing their husband to WoW and it's ruining their once-happy marriage. Isn't it a distinct possibility that their marriage would still be great if he had never even heard of WoW? I'd say it's at least possible. Is it also a possibility that the marriage would have ended up on the rocks anyway? Sure, but we can't just make the assumption that all WoW addicts are escaping pent up problems in their lives.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that I really don't think all people that are currently "WoW addicts" are those who became addicted because they were subconciously ignoring the problems in their lives through WoW. Certainly there are a lot of people like that out there. I'm not debating that. I'm just saying that there is another demographic of "addicts" out there that are replacing, not ignoring, the people and things that they valued the first time they logged on to WoW. You might disagree with me, but I think that in doing so, you're trivializing all addictions, not just WoW addictions.

Reply to TheNeverhood
- 0 +

Quote :

Actually you're the one who missed the point of the thread.

No one was saying addictions are harmless, or that it's right to be addicted to anything, we're just saying the root of the problem has nothing to do with WoW. If you can get so immersed in a virtual world, there are some other factors at work that are pushing the individuals into it, and blaming WoW over it is plain stupidity.

If your wife was cheating on you, do you blame her new lover, or do you look for the reasons that caused her to cheat on you to begin with? Most people are stupid, so they'll probably blame the other guy, but just sitting there idly blaming someone without correcting anything isn't going to solve a thing. And isn't that supposed to be Dr. Orzack's job? To solve problems, not point the finger at something in an attempt to gain publicity.



No, in fact, you missed my point. I know nobody is saying addictions are harmless. Maybe I wasn't clear enough in my post. Nobody, including myself, is blaming the game itself or Blizzard. We live in a free society where we should be able to do whatever we want and create whatever we want within the scope of the law.

I was acknowledging that certain people are predisposed to addictions, but I totally disagree with the leap that you are making. You're claiming that WoW addiction is exclusive to people with "other factors" at work in their lives that bring the addiction on. Of course this might be the case with many WoW addicts. My question is that isn't it possible that some people, especially kids out there, were leading fairly "typical" lives without any of these "other factors" at work, but just got pulled into the game over time because they got so wrapped up in it?

Here are some things we can agree on:

1.) Building a good WoW character is very time consuming.
2.) To some people, WoW is a very fun game.
3.) Too much of any fun thing can lead to a potentially harmful habit.

I think given the right individual personality, these factors can lead to WoW addiction. This isn't to say that these people had lots of screwed up things going on in their lives.

Someone earlier in the thread mentioned that they were losing their husband to WoW and it's ruining their once-happy marriage. Isn't it a distinct possibility that their marriage would still be great if he had never even heard of WoW? I'd say it's at least possible. Is it also a possibility that the marriage would have ended up on the rocks anyway? Sure, but we can't just make the assumption that all WoW addicts are escaping pent up problems in their lives.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that I really don't think all people that are currently "WoW addicts" are those who became addicted because they were subconciously ignoring the problems in their lives through WoW. Certainly there are a lot of people like that out there. I'm not debating that. I'm just saying that there is another demographic of "addicts" out there that are replacing, not ignoring, the people and things that they valued the first time they logged on to WoW. You might disagree with me, but I think that in doing so, you're trivializing all addictions, not just WoW addictions.

Believe it or not, our views are actually quite similar with one minor difference; I'm not just including valid psychological or social problem individuals into the group that need a catalyst to form an addiction, but rather those with personalities that are considered negative by today's norm. Slobs and deadbeats will exist, with or without addictions. There were people who go without educations even before computers existed. As someone said before, it's about their priorities. The husband you're talking about for instance, the wife talks about him going from 10 hours of sleep to 6 hours, and not wanting to do the yardwork. Most of us are working people so we will recognize that 10 hours is excessive, and 6 hours is definitely a reasonable amount of sleep, he is not going from say 10 hours of sleep to pulling all-nighters just to play. Yardwork, and "fixing broken things" as the poster said, are both considered work. If he has the right (or in this case, the "wrong" ) personality, it's usually only a matter of time before they cease getting done anyways. You know the saying, "I have nothing better to do..." applies here, as games or fun things just BECOMES that "better thing to do" hence other things become neglected.

Now we just go right back to the beginning again. Do we blame the game and its makers for doing such a good job providing this distraction, or do we blame the users for being unable to control themselves? So now we just go back to the definition of an addiction, which no one here seems to be able to agree with, and in the end this is a never-ending argument.

However, argument or not, the single one and only point I AM trying to make, is that this doctor is in this particular interview is full of crap. I have no doubts about her qualifications and achievements elsewhere, but regarding online gaming she clearly as no place to making public statements, as she is quite obviously attempting to gain publicity by appealing to the misunderstanding parents by making bold claims about a popular product, which can just about be applied to everything else.

It is a common tactic used by the media, such as their claims that everything from crayons to milk cause cancer, when there are much riskier activities that can cause it, however are not covered because widespread knowledge already exists.

So in summary
1) WoW and just about anything else can ruin someone's life if their personalities, problems or social aspects warrants it. Someone with a beer belly who sits around watching TV living in a trailer is no better than someone who plays WoW after work until sleep.

2) Pleasurable things can lead to the above situations, and there is a breaking point for some people. There's no such thing as a 1 or a 0 for addictive or non-addictive, but there are various shades of grey. Things that are more fun, more accessible, are likely easier on the scale, whereas things that cause a physiological change (ie narcotics) are obviously the most addicting. However, WoW does not cause such a change, and is merely fun to its players, and accessible. Do we credit Blizzard for making a good product, or expect them to reduce the quality to protect those who have poor individual characteristics? Hard to say, and this seems to be the main reason people are arguing. There is no doubt that some people do get addicted, but is this avoidable on the company's part? In fact, the internet is also considered addicting and is classified along the lines of video game addiction, likely for the same reasons; accessibility and fun. This is the reason I say that the doctor is full of crap. Pointing the finger at one particular product will help no one, as people are getting addicted to a wide-variety of things. However it appears she wants to be the leader in her own niche, so it was a business move.

Reply to Keffal
- 0 +

Being a ex player.

WOW is addictive.

When things are addictive more people will become addicted than if things are not addictive.

Check out http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/WOW_widow/
(There are some really scary stories, about 2000 members (that have found this group, they are probably just the tip of the iceberg))
So if assuming 2000 / 0.1 = 20000 addicted + x (unknown numbmer of other sites listing wow addicted people where addition is a reall problem))
We might end up at 20000-200000 where the wow addiction is a real problem. (As gamers who has reached level 60 in a guild we have probably all met a few guildies that seems to be online at all times 12-16 hours a day)))

This is a real issue out there.

Addiction might be/not be a problem it depends on how heavily it affects everyday life.

I would say more than 20 hours a week is probably borderline.
Considering 6 hours sleep a day (7x7=49)
Work or school (8x5 = 40)
Eating (1 * 7 (3 meals/snack...)) = 7
Toilet, showering ... = (1*7 = 7 )
Transportation to work school and back (1 *7) = 7
Total used hours = 42+40+7+7+7 = 110
Hours in week = 7 * 24 = 168

... missing time consumers like social interaction .... sports ... shopping .. taking care of kids , exercising... bla bla

So a working/studying person, that eats, sleeps, and showers regulary
have around 58 hours available in a week.

So 20 hours a week will take roughtly 1/3 of this time that is probably around where it too much (3 hours a day every single day).

Sure if you are a person getting by with 3 hours a night, and not working, eating in front of the game, shitting in a bucket in front of the game, not showering ... you are probably addicted big time.

If you know what this means RAGGOTPWND then you have most likely spent more than 15 days /played. That is a lot of time.

Still the best game available :)

Reply to KST

Quote :

Considering 6 hours sleep a day (7x7=49)



You win the Mathematics Whiz of the Day Award!

Reply to clue69less

Most people here understand the problem right. Addiction derive from personal problems not from any particular activity however addictive is may be. A very stupid point from the doctor is to ask game producers to tone down the addiction level of the game.
I don't think she understands that game making is as much an art as music, movies or writing a book. Whoever have ever thought about asking a writer to
write worse book because you can't let his book down? Or cut some too good
scenes from a movie? or...( you get my point...)

Reply to tenchichan

Quote :

Most people here understand the problem right. Addiction derive from personal problems not from any particular activity however addictive is may be.



Have you bothered to read any literature about addiction? I'd point you towards the work concerning crack vs. snorted cocaine hydrochloride as a starting point to blow your above comments to smithereens.

Quote :

A very stupid point from the doctor is to ask game producers to tone down the addiction level of the game.



The doc is just trying to recruit a few thousand "addicts" to her hospital so it can become a chain of hospitals and she can become a mega-millionaireess.

Reply to clue69less

Actually, she is just trying to get all the "pros" offline so her clan can do some damage.... ;)

Reply to Ninjahedge
- 0 +

Quote :

Actually, she is just trying to get all the "pros" offline so her clan can do some damage.... ;)



Yea, she wants the [Thunderfury, Blessed Blade of the Windseeker] all for herself!

I could take her in PVP.
<< Mages PWN >>

I am a habitual WoW player, I play at least 1-2 hours a day, at least. I love it, it's a habit. I have my habits, and so do you. Embrace it, and don't put others down who have different habits.

Reply to Krylos
- 0 +

Quote :

I love how articles about internet addiction always bring on a bunch of forum posts from people saying that they aren't addicted. They play WoW 75+ hours a week, but they can't stop any time they want.



I love how internet "articles" can allow the person being interviewed to pull a number out of their hat and are not asked a follow up question of how they came to that number. No question like "what study/research/poll/empiricial evidence is that based on."

Learn to ask a follow up and that makes a real news feature.

That's like Stephen Colbert saying there are 6 million elephants in Africa because that's his opinion.

Reply to taveen
- 0 +

man... i just read the first five responses. wow. if they are indicative of the rest of these replies then that does not bode well.

But ya the majority of the posts were mentioning something that either was not relevant to the article or you are agreeing with what she said.

----

This is one of the times where people read an article and rationalize their arguments till they fit their personal philosophy....

Reply to syn1kk
- 0 +

I had to create an account just to comment on this very subject...

If you play video games for an excessive amount of time, then I personally would consider it an addiction. But then again, you have to define "excessive," because everyone's point of view is different. I myself have been playing WoW for a little over a month (30 day retail key + 10 day free trial). I have been playing whenever I get the chance - hours a day on weekdays and every weekend for hours on end. The game completely consumed me. Now that my 30 day key has expired, It is taking every ounce of mental strength to prohibit me from purchasing another 60 day key. I was actually smart and didn't put in a credit card number for the automatic renewal. I don't think I could have brought myself to remove the CC number.

Now, I have been raised in a good family with plenty of moral values. I have always had high amounts of self control and haven't ever had a problem putting off video games for so called "real life" situations. This game completely changed all of that. My wife has broken down and our relationship has suffered. I am currently a full time student at night in a Computer Networking program. I can't even remember the last time I actually sat down and tried to focus to do homework. My grades have not been suffering, but the only reason for this is because 8 of the 9 students in my classes PLAY WoW themselves! My teacher is one of the worst in the world, since he himself is addicted to World of Warcraft as well and plays it all through class (he has leveled a 56 Rogue). He gives out A+ grades to anybody who shows up - no homework needed.

I am also paying for my own education through student loans. I can't get any grant money because I make too much, so I am loaned out to the max. I REFUSE to let my education go to waste for this game. You have to ask yourself: What would you rather have? A lifetime of greater opportunities full of wealth and success or a couple of level 60 characters in a virtual universe which will very well be obsolete in 10, 15 or 20 years. Even if you tried to sell the level 60s, you would only get maybe one or two thousand out of them. But if I decide to continue to play and drop out of school, I am losing about $20,000 worth of education, plus a whole lot of wealth over time (WoW should know about benefits over time - Just like Damage over Time spells right?). Like I said, I refuse to let that go. Think about MMO games or other games that were popular 10 years ago - Quake, Everquest, etc. Where are the people who played these obsessively now? Where are these games now?

On top of this, I have been late to work in the morning simply because I stayed up too late playing WoW (especially Sunday nights). I couldn't get up in the morning, so I lost a little time that I could have been productive. I am also EXTREMELY tired at work the next day since I have thrown off my sleep schedule.

After reading through several responses to this article, I would say that the article includes a good bit of insight and is mostly accurate. If you think about it, that is only 4 out of 10 people that are addicted, which is a VERY likely number. I have no proof other than my own WoW problem, but I believe it.

I agree with several people's statements regarding self control. Of course Blizzard designed this game to be addictive - that is how they are making 50+ million dollars a month just from subscription fees. They would be stupid NOT to design this game to be addictive. It takes determination and self control, but you CANNOT completely cut off this game if you enjoy it. It is all about two words: Passion and Priorities

You have to have a passion in life, since you cannot just work all the time, go to school, study and spend time with family. That would drive me (and anyone else) crazy. BUT, you also must prioritize your life. You must be able to put down the mouse and perform your real life functions. If you don't, you will quickly see yourself heading down the same path I am. I personally don't want to lose my wife, my college degree and eventually my job over a video game, passion or not.

Believe me or not, it has happened to people before. Another issue is the time you have to play it. At this particular point in my life, I just don't have the TIME to devote to this game. I work a full time schedule with a little bit of overtime thrown in, attend school full time at night, have homework and certifications to study for as well as a wife and family to spend time with. The few hours of gameplay time I would be able to squeeze in without my wife getting mad would hardly be worth the $12.50 a month to play it. I wouldn't be getting my money or value out of the game. I personally must have a passion in this life, and that passion is video games. However, I will be resorting to playing other games or doing other things (after all, my wife works at a movie theater, so FREE MOVIES for me!)

Reader Beware: This game WILL affect your life.

Also, to the person who said that gambling is more entertaining than most video games - you have GOT to be kidding me. Watching yourself pull down a handle or push a button on a blinking machine while watching 3 wheels spin to a stop hoping that they land on cherries is ridiculous. Not to mention the ridiculously low odds of actually winning. Please don't get pulled into the hype of gambling either.

syn0s

Reply to syn0s

I was going to write something important, but my WoW server just came back up. Later cya

Reply to Snowblade
- 0 +

Quote :


...
But if I decide to continue to play and drop out of school, I am losing about $20,000 worth of education, plus a whole lot of wealth over time. Like I said, I refuse to let that go.
...
Of course Blizzard designed this game to be addictive - that is how they are making 50+ million dollars a month just from subscription fees. They would be stupid NOT to design this game to be addictive.
...
I personally don't want to lose my wife, my college degree and eventually my job over a video game, passion or not.



Really thought out response. I have empathy for you because you have to deal with such a crappy teacher AND you are paying for it.

The worst is dealing with my brother who is a complete addict. And none of our entire family and extended family can do anything about it. I actually broke my cable modem when he was visiting for 3 weeks. (long story)

Anyway, everyone has their story about the friend/family/husband/wife/significant-other that they lost to WoW. I am just repeating that.

------

My post is more about how people are so in denial about it sometimes. They come up with such elaborate ways of showing why it is not wrong. But in the end it is just not right to spend 4 to 8 hours a day playing a video game. There is nothing in the world that can justify playing video games that long. Nothing.

------

I stopped playing video games pretty much 2 and a half years ago. I still have trouble with it.

Sounds like a recovering addict speaking about his favorite drug (or alcoholic).

Well yes, I was an addict and still am to some extent.

Reply to syn1kk
- 0 +

I feel it is relevant to mention this. Some of you argue that the lady in the article is not qualified because she is old and doesn't know anything about computers or video games etc etc.

All addictions nearly identical in the way they affect a person physically and mentally. There are always common signs for any addiciton. They all revolve around something giving pleasure (a drug, or just the thought of playing a video game gives intensive pleasure) and a repeated behavior.

Reply to syn1kk

Quote :

I feel it is relevant to mention this. Some of you argue that the lady in the article is not qualified because she is old and doesn't know anything about computers or video games etc etc.

All addictions nearly identical in the way they affect a person physically and mentally. There are always common signs for any addiciton. They all revolve around something giving pleasure (a drug, or just the thought of playing a video game gives intensive pleasure) and a repeated behavior.



So do we really need a clinic specialising in addiction to computer games?

Reply to llama_man
- 0 +

Be more specific. By saying 'we' do you mean the society? And if you do, then it is up to society to decide (see politics, psychology, medicine, etc etc).

By saying 'we' do you mean the people on this board? Insert redefinition of the relative term 'we'. Insert redefinition of the relative term 'we'.

-----

If it really is a public health concern like bigmac said earlier in this discussion then it should be addressed. I don't know how. But it should be.

Reply to syn1kk
- 0 +

I think he was specific enough if you give it some thought. He meant to ask whether we need addiction clinics specialized in computer games, like there are specific clinics for alcohol addicts, drug addicts, etc.

In short, if there's enough people looking for help with a computer addiction, I'd say "yes". There's a common part on how to handle addiction but there's always a specific part with regard to the habit one is addicted to. I'd say that it should be possible to group all kinds of computer addiction together, like internet, chatroom, games, etc. the common denominator being the way you have access the applications.

Reply to BigMac
- 0 +

Quote :

I think he was specific enough if you give it some thought. He meant to ask whether we need addiction clinics specialized in computer games, like there are specific clinics for alcohol addicts, drug addicts, etc.

In short, if there's enough people looking for help with a computer addiction, I'd say "yes". There's a common part on how to handle addiction but there's always a specific part with regard to the habit one is addicted to. I'd say that it should be possible to group all kinds of computer addiction together, like internet, chatroom, games, etc. the common denominator being the way you have access the applications.



Boo!!!

I spend at least 16 hours a day on a computer during any given day. That is what makes me content. This is a hobby / passion. If you want to call that an addiction, by all means. I am a GEEK. This geek plays WoW. This geek is a programmer. This geek is not going to any kind of ridiculous social gathering for talking about your "problems with computer addiction". Instead people ask this geek to help solve problems with their computers!

Reply to Krylos
Tom's Hardware > Forum > Games General > Games General Discussions > Expert: 40 Percent of World of Warcraft Players Addicted
Go to:

There are 863 identified and unidentified users. To see the list of identified users, Click here.

Sponsored links
  • Ask the community now
  • Publish
Ad
They won a badge
Join us in greeting them