Mozilla: EU's Win 7 Browser Ballot is Favoritism

Give me a damn break. Boo f-ing hoo

if IE is the default way to get updates, then it should be on your PC. I can.t recall of any other OS having to do the ballot thing to install a browser; also, what would be the next thing, have Firefox integrated in Windows? I am a heavy FF user, but they do not have a point in this case; if you build a successful OS and a web browser also, you are entitled to put it in there and give it a privileged status.
As far as the average user getting lost in the process of installing another browser... REALLY? If one is capable of getting lost during this process, then forgive me, but they shouldn't be choosy about browsers to begin with, as they hardly know what that means.
And, if that is a concern, then Mozilla should come up with a solution for their potential customers, like very streamlined installation and readily available tech support because it's their software...
MS made a huge mistake by giving in to the request from the start; it's their OS and they are entitled to do whatever they want with it. I doubt the EU would have gone the MacOS way because of this issue ..
Again , I am using FF all the time and I have had no issues installing it, so MS did not do anything to prevent me from using it ...

I thought they decided they didn't need to make a special EU version? This is so stupid.

The ballot is a step in the right direction. The only real way to make this fair would be to have each browser available on the disc. Then the user can just choose which browser to install instead of having to follow directions to download it.

Then have Windows update run on separate software unrelated to IE thus removing the need for IE to be on the system.

Wow Mozilla. Enough with the whining. Starting to sound like Opera.

And this wouldn't happen during a normal install process with a common idiot at the helm?

Personally I think the whole issue is ridiculous. Windows is a closed-source operating system, and I would only expect to find M$ applications included with it. If I want to use something other than what's included, I can then acquire and install it myself. To expect M$ to facilitate the process on any level is rather silly unless there is some kind of business partnership involved. As long as M$ doesn't try to prevent installation of 3rd-party replacements, then there shouldn't be a problem.

Isn't Windows a Microsoft product? Isn't the ballot screen enough? I mean, they sell the operating system, GIVE YOU THE OPTION of selecting your browser of choice... What next? Why market a rival product?! They should go the google way, make FirefoxOs or something...

then maybe re-write a whole good part of the OS too.../sarcasm
Really, I would like to see MacOS bending backwards to accommodate FF or IE in their core OS , and remind you that we're talking about people that are actively censoring their clients' opinions/complaints on forums...
Bottom line is, MS had to use an internet client to do the updates and, guess what, they already had one built by themselves...go figure that one out.

I love how people vote me down for pointing out that the Ballot is a step in the right direction. I never said i agreed with it just that it was a step closer to being fair. Which is what Microsoft is trying to do.

Personally I don't think they should have to even mention those other browsers. IE should be a choice to install not a requirement but Microsoft should not have to advertise their competitors browsers.

Im pretty sure any one "savvy" enough to install their OS alone can delete a shortcut and pin another from their programs menu. People who arnt "Tech Savvy" will most likely buy from a OEM and already have whatever the OEM determines installed. If they are upgrading then it will also leave their previous browser as main and its shortcut in place.

So it's not enough to give them the option and make them aware, but now you think they should have their competetors software on the disk? Maybe they should have Mac commercials run during the install?

and another thing: ppl who are able to download firefox are smart enough to just install it at the first opportunity. I really don't mind my copy of Win7 comming with IE as default browser. Ill just download FF and install all my addons and set it as default browser. No harm done from MSFT.

Cheers.

I have met people who would get lost trying to install something like a browser. How? I don't know but they have issues figuring out how to get music on their iPods if they can't just plug it in and have it load all the music they have on their iPods.

This ballet screen, which I find stupid but can't do much about it, should download the software off the internet otherwise the software would be out of date quickly. I love how the EU didn't think "Wait, what if there is an update?" The next lawsuit is probably going to be because someone's computer crashed when the browser they installed was used to hack into their computer because it wasn't up to date.

Mozilla... why do you CARE so much which free Internet browser the EU folks use? They whine with the ballot screen, they whine when NO browser at all is planned for inclusion. How about Microsoft just install Chrome and change the Windows API so your browser can't be installed at all? That's not fair I guess since Firefox is a good browser despite your crappy politics....

Keep whining Mozilla, and I'll have to start using IE.

lol they need to stop bitching. When the "Chairman" of Mozilla makes his own OS and he is forced to not even have his own firefox as standard browser then he would have somethign better to stuff his mouth with. Just for this mi officially removing Firefox from my pc after I post this even if i use it from times to times. F them.

Reading Comprehension FTW. Same with everyone else reading my comment. Although i can see it being a little ambiguous so I don't blame you. Except that you didn't read my post later on down the line.

Anyhow that post was strictly on the topic of Microsoft's attempts to be fair and how they can go about it. It was in no way my opinion of the situation. I was't trying to let my emotions get in the way like almost every other poster does in the comments section. MY personally opinion is that IE should not be required (in other words, I shouldn't be forced to have it on my system if I don't want it, right now its required, and even if you uninstall all it does is remove the shortcut as its needed for other applications) but Microsoft should not have to advertise their competitors either. My last post here. Hopefully people can comprehend this one.

I think MS should be able to charge all the other browser companies for advertising their products on the ballot screen.

What is next a ballot screen for all the media players?

I do think that MS needs to make the OS install a bit more user friendly. I would like to see big named icons for all the add-ons that are installed, instead of having to drill down through the menus and click tiny check boxes.

I will also start the Apple attacks, I just read today the next OSX will have Quicktime Pro included for free. Why isn't the EU going after Apple for this. Apple is acting like MS.

It is item 5 in the following article.

Sorry like did not post.

http://tech.yahoo.com/news/infowor [...] orld/88573

I meant link.

Microsoft will always have some sort of advantage because they built the operating system. Personally I don't have a problem with IE being included. I think it is a good thing to have a screen where you can choose a new browser but to be honest, most users won't know what they are looking at. The trick is to help consumers become more informed about having a choice and what the choices are. Then if the consumer decides to try another browser they can. So basically I think we should focus more energy on consumer education than on what Microsoft is or is not doing.

abso-totally uber-preposterous

I bet you're all the same people who bitch and moan about DRM and tweak your OS to disable unnecessary systems and programs, and yet you don't care that IE is practically uninstallable.

While it is nice that so many people personally feel that Microsoft should be allowed to include only IE in their OS, it is important that the EU found them in violation and is requiring Microsoft to remedy the situation.

What is at question is if the ballot system adequately complies with the EU ruling or not. Mozilla says it does not comply, so the EU courts need to decide if Mozilla's reasoning is correct.

Personally I am a little disappointed that so many people feel that a company's desire for profit should override regional laws, that a company found in violation of laws should flex monopolistic muscle to coerce governments into compliance with their desires, and that a US-centric vision of how business should be applied unilaterally (while the US does things like choose to not participate as an equal in the International Criminal Court). While not all posters seem of this bent, there is a disturbing number of posts that seem to support this highly distorted world view of US domination/superiority.

Microsoft CHOSE to integrate IE into the Windows Update process, they could just as easily have given Windows Update it's own ability to access the internet without piggy-backing IE. Microsoft employs about 1 billion developers worldwide, don't tell me that they don't have the resources to write a little extra code...

uhmm,.. They don't charge? Then I WANT IN! How do I get MY browser on the ballot screen. Can I sue them?

This is ridiculous, as others have posted, this isn't about politics. So we're supposed to just bend over and take it from the government huh?

Personally I'd find it absolutely hillarious if Microsoft decided to stop selling Windows in the EU period. I know they won't do it because of missed profits, but nobody would have a clue what to do. Like the average joe is going to go out and buy a Linux machine and know how to use it.

Why would they not use IE to piggyback to the net?

You act as if Microsoft should have a contingency for every potential issue with their OS. So should they remove Media Player, automatic Printer drivers and DVD playback? I mean Winamp isn't getting their fair share.

Even if you do believe this why the singled out concentration on Microsoft? Why not Apple? They do far worse and get away with it.

I am so very quickly losing all respect for Mozilla. I have been using FireFox for years, but this is just ridiculous. They should be satisfied with the fact that Microsoft is doing this in the first place as free advertising for them, nevermind bitch and complain til it's exactly how they want it. Why should one company have to advertise another's competing products? It's absolutely retarded, especially since I've never seen a FireFox box in Best Buy, or a commercial telling me to switch from IE.

It does, or at least it does in XP and I think in Vista. While "Microsoft Update" will only run in IE (and I don't have a problem with that), the "Automatic Updates" feature runs as an independent process. If that has changed in Vista/Win7, then you can ignore this post.

Furthermore, you can use any modern browser to download updates and apply them manually. That's less convenient for the home/small business user, but it's one of the preferred methods for larger installations, download once, then deploy internally.

I'm not a MS fan and I hate IE (I'll take Firefox, Safari, Opera, or Chrome over IE whenever possible), but Mitchell Baker is wrong on this one.