Carmack: Microsoft, Sony May Be Hostile to AMD's Mantle
John Carmack talks about the Mantle API.
On Wednesday, after AMD revealed its new "Hawaii" GPUs and Mantle API, id Software co-founder and Oculus VR CTO John Carmack took to Twitter to express his thoughts on the new API. He admitted that the company has some interesting opportunities with Mantle given AMD's "dual console wins," (getting APUs into the Xbox One and PlayStation 4) but he doubts Microsoft and Sony will be very helpful in AMD's united gaming campaign.
"Considering the boost Mantle could give to a steambox, MS and Sony may wind up being downright hostile to it," he said. "I don't know the details, but it is pitched as a console level hardware access for the PC from AMD."
For old-school PC gamers, AMD's Mantle API may sound a little familiar. A little company named 3DFX created the Glide API for its Voodoo GPUs, allowing developers like John Carmack to directly access the chip's hardware features. This seemingly brought the original Quake to life despite OpenGL's capabilities, but the industry eventually adopted OpenGL as the default and then Microsoft's DirectX when it matured.
Like Glide, AMD's Mantle API grants developers low-level access to the native language of the Graphics Core Next architecture. OpenGL and DirectX are considered high-level access that provides broad (generic) optimizations across a number of GPUs. However, the benefits of developing a console are two-fold: there's only one hardware set per vendor and direct low-level access to the hardware. AMD's Mantle attempts to do the same on the GPU front in PCs at the very least.
DICE's Frostbite 3 is reportedly the first game engine to use AMD's API, and will first appear in Battlefield 4 this December as an update. Given that the GPU cores in the Xbox One and PlayStation 4 are based on the Graphics Core Next architecture, it will be interesting to see if the console versions receive this update as well. If Carmack is right, Sony and Microsoft may do whatever it takes to separate their versions from the PC counterpart.
Valve's Steam Machines will be provided by hardware partners, and will likely allow owners to easily upgrade components when needed. Unlike consoles that are locked into one hardware set, these gaming rigs can have a mix-match of components. Nvidia has already officially revealed its involvement with the SteamOS development, and AMD mentioned that it supports Valve's Steam Machines initiative as well.
"I didn't even think about that -- yes, that would help the steam box a lot with AAA content," Carmack said, referring to using the Mantle API with Steam Machines solutions.
AMD said it will reveal more about the Mantle API in November during its Developer Summit 2013 conference.
After that Mantle isn't closed. that way maybe AMD can be crowned king of the consoles sector and have a good income in future years.
We are watching something so awesome, a company trying to get gaming more equitative. this isn't about whats better or who has the biggest profit is about making gaming both and console and on pc better.
I allmost hope that it will be implemented in console envinronment, but not so sure in PC world...
I have been usin ATI / AMD for some time because they have offered the best bang for the buck in those times I was configuring my PC. But still don't hope it to have an monopoly (as I don't want the Intel or Nvidia to have it either!) Monopoly is allways bad to customers in long run.
How did programmers like it? Also, it was proprietary, and an upcoming API called OpenGL started to take off. Apparently Direct3D's advantage was that "it just worked". GPUs and CPUs have grown to where low-level might not be as advantageous unless you are an engine maker like the UE3 or the Cryengine
Before AMD can get (console) developers to jump on Mantle, AMD has to convince Microsoft and Sony to add Mantle to XBOne and PS4 since Sony and Microsoft are the ones who dictate what APIs, drivers, etc. are in their respective consoles and which ones aren't.
Oh this brings back memories! Super 7 w/K62-300 oc to 350, rush rendition r1000, with Voodoo 2 in SLI... Beta testing Evercrack!!!
That means the developer needs to write custom routines for both the Mantle API and standard DirectX/OpenGL for Nvidia and pre-GCN AMD/ATI users.
yea, microsoft hold dx hostage as a bargaining chip to upgrade the os, for some reason no one uses opengl for games anymore, but amd, who have a vested interest in gaming and not selling an os to game on (which cannibalizes console sales), i could easily see this taking off in the pc area just because microsoft has no interest in pc gaming, mix that with steam box and you get this or opengl making a comeback and i like both options.
Before AMD can get (console) developers to jump on Mantle, AMD has to convince Microsoft and Sony to add Mantle to XBOne and PS4 since Sony and Microsoft are the ones who dictate what APIs, drivers, etc. are in their respective consoles and which ones aren't.
Wow you got downvoted for stating the truth. Anyway i agree with you. Amd can convince dev the developing their games on pc to use Mantle API but on the console the developer still need to follow the guide line that provided by MS or Sony to develop their games on respective console. If MS or Sony say no then dev can't do anything about it even if they want to. For example Sony could reject dev to write their code fully in Mantle API because it might not follow the their standard quality assurance or something like that. So you were right for console AMD need to convice MS and Sony first before talking about developer using it in console enviroment
I remember Glide too. I remember downloading game patches over dial-up so the best games could now support opengl. Spec Ops was one of them, one of the darkest, muddiest looking games I've ever played on PC, lol