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Nvidia: Intel is Hindering Graphics

By - Source: Tom's Hardware US | B 46 comments

Nvidia said that consumers should have the option to use Nvidia chipsets on low-end and mid-range systems.

CNET reports that Nvidia senior vice president Daniel Vivoli went on NBC's press:here Friday and gave Intel an indirect one-two punch to the midsection. The Nvidia executive claims that the rival company is denying consumers the chance to use Nvidia chips, clarifying that consumers using Intel's Core i series should have the option to use Nvidia's lower-end GPUs.

The dispute between the two chip manufacturers sparked in February 2009. Intel said in a legal filing that its license agreement with Nvidia does not include the Core i series and future technologies. Nvidia, seemingly kicked to the curb, countersued. Friday's overall Q&A session covered the entire 10-year feud between Nvidia and Intel, starting with the initial agreement allowing Nvidia chipsets to work in conjunction with Intel's CPUs, and leading up to the current Core i processor dispute.

But the discussion eventually went into the lower-end market where Nvidia doesn't currently reside with current Intel-based systems. Does Nvidia really want to enter that arena? Vivoli came back with a stern "certainly!"

The main focal point in regards to Vivoli's defense was that mainstream computing has become more complex. Typical, average users are watching Flash-based video on the Internet. They are editing videos and photos. Applications are now requiring more than just the standard CPU, and those mainstream consumers--those who exist in the low-end and mid-range market--should be allowed to access Nvidia's superior technology (over Intel graphics).

"There are new technologies coming to sort through your photos to (for example) find faces of relatives very quickly," he said. "Those activities are much more efficient on a GPU and appeal to the mainstream user. If you buy a low-end PC, you shouldn't be denied the ability to do those things efficiently."

To see the full Q&A session, check out the video listed in several part here.

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Top Comments
  • 24 Hide
    pepperman , April 26, 2010 6:43 PM
    liquidchildI will never own a green card but I do feel a little bad for them. Anyone know why Nvidia can't just start making CPUs? Both AMD and intel are making cpu/gpu chips in the future...will this put nvidia out of biz?


    Unfortunately NVidia can't start manufacturing x86(/x64) cpus due to licensing issues. NVidia would have to buy a company with an x86(/x63) contract (such as VIA, as its unlikely to buy Intel or AMD).
  • 18 Hide
    jazn1337 , April 26, 2010 6:23 PM
    Does this mean Nvidia is going to blame Intel for delaying Fermi over half a year and for turning Fermi into a grill?
Other Comments
  • 18 Hide
    jazn1337 , April 26, 2010 6:23 PM
    Does this mean Nvidia is going to blame Intel for delaying Fermi over half a year and for turning Fermi into a grill?
  • Display all 46 comments.
  • 0 Hide
    liquidchild , April 26, 2010 6:26 PM
    I will never own a green card but I do feel a little bad for them. Anyone know why Nvidia can't just start making CPUs? Both AMD and intel are making cpu/gpu chips in the future...will this put nvidia out of biz?
  • -3 Hide
    killerclick , April 26, 2010 6:29 PM
    I don't think that most people who use IGP solutions know or care which chip they have. If AMD and others don't get a slice of the Intel chipset pie, I don't see how nVidia has a case here.
  • 9 Hide
    wintermint , April 26, 2010 6:30 PM
    Wow such coc- I mean performance blockers :p 
  • -3 Hide
    insider3 , April 26, 2010 6:31 PM
    If you can't beat em, Join em.
  • 24 Hide
    pepperman , April 26, 2010 6:43 PM
    liquidchildI will never own a green card but I do feel a little bad for them. Anyone know why Nvidia can't just start making CPUs? Both AMD and intel are making cpu/gpu chips in the future...will this put nvidia out of biz?


    Unfortunately NVidia can't start manufacturing x86(/x64) cpus due to licensing issues. NVidia would have to buy a company with an x86(/x63) contract (such as VIA, as its unlikely to buy Intel or AMD).
  • -9 Hide
    etrom , April 26, 2010 6:45 PM
    liquidchildAnyone know why Nvidia can't just start making CPUs? Both AMD and intel are making cpu/gpu chips in the future...will this put nvidia out of biz?


    I think it's basically because the green team don't have yet the know-how to build CPUs for x86 systems.

    AMD bought ATi and only after almost five years we're seeing the result of the marriage: Fusion.

    So far NVidia is trailling behind the blue and red teams, let's see what the green team can pull off the hat in this cpu/gpu trend days :) 
  • -5 Hide
    Anonymous , April 26, 2010 6:46 PM
    Nvida should be talking they are having trouble getting their drivers working with Windows 7! (Nvidia kernel mode stop working}
  • 5 Hide
    RazberyBandit , April 26, 2010 7:11 PM
    Consumers do have the option - they can buy your video cards.

    What you really want is for OEMs to buy IGP chipsets and mass-produce motherboards for major PC makers, such as Dell and HP. Well guess what? Years ago that fell upon the shoulders of the OEM motherboard manufacturers because they chose the components used in their boards. It may come as a surprise to this guy, but Intel is in the chipset business too. According to Intel, there are specific licensing issues that prohibit the use of nVidia chipsets with Core-i CPUs. Compete or die - it's big business. nVidia can't blame Intel for being business savvy and securing more profit for themselves.

    If you made your own CPUs, you'd protect your chipset business just like Intel is doing now. Oh, that's right! You already do that with ION and Tegra...

    This whole debate over whether or not the original license agreement carries over from the previous CPU generations into the Core-i CPUs is just getting old. If nVidia wanted in on that market, they should have just negotiated a new license with Intel to produce Core i compatible IGP chipsets when they were first released instead of claiming the existing license should permit them to do so. If they had done so, they would have been making money since then instead of spending it in court. And of course, they could have gone back and sued to recover the 2nd license's cost if they truly believed the original license granted them the ability to develop for the Core-i. Instead, now they'll try to recover some make believe sum of hypothetical money lost since they weren't able to do so.

    Part of me just wants to punch nVidia in the mouth, tell them to refocus on just making kick-ass video cards, and forget the rest.
  • 5 Hide
    hellwig , April 26, 2010 7:13 PM
    Intel is hindering the market because they refer to that crap they include in their chipsets as a GPU. However, anyone who knows what GPU is, knows Intel isn't sufficient for that purpose. For everyone else, they wouldn't really benefit from Nvidia, the CPU can handle the extra workload for them (i.e. watching hi-def movies). Unless manufacturers push Nvidia chipsets, most people won't even know to ask for them.

    Intel probably thinks that once they include a GPU in the physical CPU (i.e. like AMD's Fusion), they won't need Nvidia anymore because the chipset itself will just basically be a SATA/USB controller. In part, they are right. There will be two consumer markets: low-end fusion-like products with integrated graphics, and high-end products that wouldn't benefit from embedded graphics of any type (on-die or in-chipset).

    Right now there's a small area where Nvidia fits into the chipset segment (i.e. low-end workstations with Athlons, Celerons, Pentiums, or Core 2s). Intel and AMD, who actually make the chips, are trying to eliminate that area entirely. Nvidia should focus on something else, because once every Celeron and Sempron comes with on-chip GPUs, there won't be any room for Nvidia chipsets.
  • 4 Hide
    formin , April 26, 2010 7:14 PM
    the majority of the functionality of the old nvidia chipsets for the core2 have now been moved on chip for the core i*.
    as the trend is going, more and more components are going to be moved on chip. Soon the motherboard wont exist and computers will be a single chip with only a HDMI, USB port and a power connector.

    to survive as a chipmaker now you must conform to the vision of a single piece of silicon containing the entire functionality of a pc. Companies who only specialize in one component will start failing the their only hope is to be bought out by a bigger companies who want to integrate the specialty components into their own chips.

    and i think intel would much rather watch nvidia sink then buy them out.
  • 5 Hide
    ohim , April 26, 2010 7:14 PM
    milkteaWhen I buy a low end device with IGP, I don't care what GPU brand it uses. As long as I get the device for less $$$. And I doubt Nvidia is able to compete with Intel on the CPU/GPU integration.Future doesn't look good for Nvidia.

    But nvidia / ati IGP are way more advanced from what Intel can offer. And the motherboards with nvidia chipset were usually cheaper than the ones from intel ;) 
  • 5 Hide
    makotech222 , April 26, 2010 7:17 PM
    I thought i would be fine when i went with the Intel 4500MHD chip in my lenovo x200t, but boy was i wrong. This thing can hardly run ANYTHING video related. I Have a gaming computer i use to play intense game, but i sometimes use my laptop for very light gaming. The thing is a piece of crap and i wish i had the option to go nvidia. I can barely run RUNESCAPE!
  • 1 Hide
    gsacks , April 26, 2010 7:25 PM
    Actually, I think the guy has a good point. Don't assume that everyone buying low end is not knowledgeable. Integrated gfx are a big factor in the HTPC market, and lots of enthusiasts also put together low end systems for friends and family. And you don't think that Dell, HP, Acer, and the rest would like to bump up the gfx just a little bit on their AIOs.

    Nvidia is losing a share of this market because they can't make chip-sets for Intel's latest sockets. That is an absolute fact.
  • 0 Hide
    dman3k , April 26, 2010 7:38 PM
    NVidia needs a x86 contract in order to compete in a couple of years. AMD's Fusion will utterly destroy Intel's Core i intergration in terms of graphics. NVidia should have bought AMD 2 years ago when they had the chance.
  • -1 Hide
    scook9 , April 26, 2010 7:39 PM
    I am lost here....they are acting like you cannot put a cheap ass nvidia discrete into your system....lol
  • 1 Hide
    tpi2007 , April 26, 2010 7:42 PM
    The trouble with Nvidia is that they seem clueless as to what the want to do or go.

    They're complaints can be summed up in two factors: Intel now has the basics convered with HD graphics, most media centers and work (office/net) computers will be fine; and then Nvidia does not have any competitive low end discrete cards, and it will take them another 3-4 months to get them to market.

    The second factor is that they probably made a fatal mistake by not acquiring VIA a few years ago. Now they are being sandwiched between AMD and Intel, both having their own complete solutions both on desktop and on laptops. That's why Nvidia talks sometimes about directing their business to other areas other than mass market consumption. I honestly think that Nvidia's CEO is no longer reasoning and is confused; it would be better for the company if he stepped down.
  • 0 Hide
    prisonerofcs , April 26, 2010 7:59 PM
    scook9I am lost here....they are acting like you cannot put a cheap ass nvidia discrete into your system....lol


    The problem is the vast amount of money the lose if OEMs such as dell, hp, etc stop using low end integrated graphics. Discrete ad on cards have the most profit margin, but the low end is more profitable in general because of the volume. I wonder how long until AMD implements a similar licensing strategy and Nvidia is really cooked.
  • 0 Hide
    TeraMedia , April 26, 2010 8:53 PM
    Having purchased a laptop for my wife with an integrated NV GPU, and experienced the pain of the thing failing when the IGP malfunctioned, I can't say as I feel a lot of sympathy for NV on this one. I suspect that an awful lot of OEMs were stung by that to the point of not wanting to incorporate any more NV chipsets at all. So the stated market loss by NV is probably a lot more optimistic than they care to admit.
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