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LG Responds to Accusations That TVs Are Spying on Users

By - Source: DoctorBeet | B 25 comments

LG SMart TVs supposedly record viewer habits, including external drive files.

Image: Cartoon NetworkImage: Cartoon Network

First, let’s start from the beginning. Earlier this week, blogger "DoctorBeet" updated his Blogspot site with an interesting post about his LG Smart TV. Just like units sold by Samsung, LG provides ads on the main landing screen that may or may not have anything to do with apps installed on the TV set. While this isn’t exactly suspicious behavior, he conducted research on the internet and came across a corporate video advertising LG’s data collection practices.

“LG Smart Ad analyses uses favorite programs, online behavior, search keywords and other information to offer relevant ads to target audiences,” he recites. “For example, LG Smart Ad can feature sharp suits to men, or alluring cosmetics and fragrances to women. Furthermore, LG Smart Ad offers useful and various advertising performance reports that live broadcasting ads cannot to accurately identify actual advertising effectiveness.”

That led to some digging through the Smart TV’s options, which revealed a setting called “Collection of watching info” that was switched on by default (note: I couldn’t find anything like this on my Samsung Smart TV -KP). After turning this feature off, he decided to perform traffic analysis to see what was being sent, and quickly discovered that the TV was sending viewing information when the setting was switch both On and Off. Even more, this info was sent back to LG unencrypted and each time he changed the channel.

Seriously, what the hey hey!?!

“It was at this point, I made an even more disturbing find within the packet data dumps.  I noticed filenames were being posted to LG's servers and that these filenames were ones stored on my external USB hard drive,” he writes. To verify this, he created a fake AVI file with a very unique name, and sure enough, the file name was listed on LG’s servers. Sometimes the names of the contents of an entire folder was posted, other times nothing was sent, he says.

“I think it's important to point out that the URL that the data is being POSTed to doesn't in fact exist, you can see this from the HTTP 404 response in the next response from LG's server after the ACK,” he writes. “However, despite being missing at the moment, this collection URL could be implemented by LG on their server tomorrow, enabling them to start transparently collecting detailed information on what media files you have stored.”

So what does LG have to say for itself? Too bad, so sad, essentially. “Unfortunately as you accepted the Terms and Conditions on your TV, your concerns would be best directed to the retailer.  We understand you feel you should have been made aware of these T's and C's at the point of sale, and for obvious reasons LG are unable to pass comment on their actions.”

The best thing for LG Smart TV owners to do is to block specific internet domains in the network’s router. They are listed below:

  • ad.lgappstv.com
  • yumenetworks.com
  • smartclip.net
  • smartclip.com
  • smartshare.lgtvsdp.com
  • ibis.lgappstv.com
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  • 1 Hide
    clonazepam , November 20, 2013 2:51 PM
    The original blog has quite a few updates in its comments section. I suggest reading it all in its entirety.
  • 2 Hide
    Warsaw , November 20, 2013 2:53 PM
    You could do as suggested, or in my mind I will not be buying any LG products as such. We have gotten into such a habit of giving and accepting that our personal information be collected.
  • 2 Hide
    Darkk , November 20, 2013 2:57 PM
    I went ahead and totally blocked my Smart TV from the internet. The website blocks listed above will work for a short while until LG sends out a new firmware update with different websites. So you can block the websites just don't update the firmware.

    Easier for me just block it's access entirely.
  • Display all 25 comments.
  • 1 Hide
    Darkk , November 20, 2013 2:59 PM
    I am disappointed that LG basically said you're SOL without being told prior to purchase. Why is it retailers responsibility to warn the customers?
  • 1 Hide
    JD88 , November 20, 2013 3:18 PM
    Again, this falls under the "why do I care who knows what I watch on TV?." If I'm going to get ads, might as well be something I'm interested in based on my past behavior. Making a big deal out of nothing.

    The people upset about this are the same ones who honestly believe the NSA cares what they do. These companies only care about data mining for your behavior patterns so they can sell you ads, not invading your personal life.

    If you wanna be mad about something, be mad about ads being there in the first place.
  • 0 Hide
    brucek2 , November 20, 2013 3:33 PM
    Blaming the retailers?!? Is there any feature of the TV this excuse couldn't be used for? "We're sorry you don't like the picture or sound on your TV, the retailer should have handled those concerns for you."

  • 0 Hide
    skit75 , November 20, 2013 3:47 PM
    @JD88

    When I am personally compensated for my data/habits, I may not mind so much. Right now, there is a money train that originated at me, of which I have no reward for, however small it may be.

    When Amazon wanted to sell a Kindle with Ads, they gave the end user notice upfront and a discount on the hardware(advertiser subsidized).

    Not to mention the browsing/logging of file-names on external drives attached.

  • 0 Hide
    brucek2 , November 20, 2013 3:51 PM
    Quote:
    The people upset about this are the same ones who honestly believe the NSA cares what they do

    The NSA may not get a lot of leverage from watching an ordinary person like me, but they can sure get a lot by watching and then extorting every elected official, every judge, every cabinet member, and every CEO as needed for the person in control of the apparatus to get whatever he wants. This is one of the ways a democracy gets undone and/or a totalitarian state maintains itself. J. Edgar Hoover did plenty of all that with a machine a lot less efficient than what the NSA has now.

    Further, even if I am an ordinary person today, I may have ambitions of one day being something more than that. It does not seem right to me that my future opportunities might be limited because I one day watched a movie that is considered to appeal to terrorists, contacted a member of the opposition party, attended a particular place of worship, or even just once dialed a wrong number that happened to be two degrees of separation away from someone who really is a terrorist. Which is exactly the sort of automated filtering a system that NSA's can do to someone, without them ever having known what happened to them.

    If you're not concerned its not that there isn't a potential problem, its that you haven't read much history and aren't thinking big picture.
  • -1 Hide
    JD88 , November 20, 2013 4:29 PM
    Quote:
    Quote:
    Again, this falls under the "why do I care who knows what I watch on TV?." If I'm going to get ads, might as well be something I'm interested in based on my past behavior. Making a big deal out of nothing.

    The people upset about this are the same ones who honestly believe the NSA cares what they do. These companies only care about data mining for your behavior patterns so they can sell you ads, not invading your personal life.

    If you wanna be mad about something, be mad about ads being there in the first place.


    Did you even read the article? Files names are being sent as well... if you're ok with that then you're kind of a dullard.


    How are you still allowed to post here?

    Tell me again why I need to be concerned about file names?

    Anything you host on any server from cloud storage to Facebook is going to be visible to that company that maintains those servers. This is nothing new.

    Quote:
    @JD88

    When I am personally compensated for my data/habits, I may not mind so much. Right now, there is a money train that originated at me, of which I have no reward for, however small it may be.

    When Amazon wanted to sell a Kindle with Ads, they gave the end user notice upfront and a discount on the hardware(advertiser subsidized).

    Not to mention the browsing/logging of file-names on external drives attached.



    You are being compensated by paying a lower retail price for the product.

    It's the same model Google, Amazon, and most social media sites use. Provide a free or cheap product/service in exchange for personal information.

    Should you be informed in advance? Of course. As I mentioned in my original post, the anger should be toward the presence of the ads, not the privacy concern. This is part of why I don't watch cable TV. Why should I be forced to watch ads when I already pay hundreds of dollars for service?
  • 0 Hide
    dalethepcman , November 20, 2013 4:33 PM
    This is why people dislike cell phones and facebook and use tube televisions...
  • 0 Hide
    skit75 , November 20, 2013 5:05 PM
    Quote:
    Quote:
    Quote:
    Again, this falls under the "why do I care who knows what I watch on TV?." If I'm going to get ads, might as well be something I'm interested in based on my past behavior. Making a big deal out of nothing.

    The people upset about this are the same ones who honestly believe the NSA cares what they do. These companies only care about data mining for your behavior patterns so they can sell you ads, not invading your personal life.

    If you wanna be mad about something, be mad about ads being there in the first place.


    Did you even read the article? Files names are being sent as well... if you're ok with that then you're kind of a dullard.


    How are you still allowed to post here?

    Tell me again why I need to be concerned about file names?

    Anything you host on any server from cloud storage to Facebook is going to be visible to that company that maintains those servers. This is nothing new.

    Quote:
    @JD88

    When I am personally compensated for my data/habits, I may not mind so much. Right now, there is a money train that originated at me, of which I have no reward for, however small it may be.

    When Amazon wanted to sell a Kindle with Ads, they gave the end user notice upfront and a discount on the hardware(advertiser subsidized).

    Not to mention the browsing/logging of file-names on external drives attached.



    You are being compensated by paying a lower retail price for the product.

    It's the same model Google, Amazon, and most social media sites use. Provide a free or cheap product/service in exchange for personal information.

    Should you be informed in advance? Of course. As I mentioned in my original post, the anger should be toward the presence of the ads, not the privacy concern. This is part of why I don't watch cable TV. Why should I be forced to watch ads when I already pay hundreds of dollars for service?


    I didn't read anywhere in the article that these sets were sold at a discount price due to advertiser subsidies.
  • 0 Hide
    popatim , November 20, 2013 5:35 PM
    Just assume Everything SMART is spying on you; from your phone to your fridge and act accordingly. Sure its mostly to get ad revenue but what if some tiny bit of info they find now can be used to twist you years down the road. "Well Mr Secretary if you sign this bill then this teen porn collection your tv found 10yrs ago might just not leak out and cost you the election or land you in jail."
    Also none of us here would have a file named My bank of america password is.... but every single one of us knows someone who would do that. And who do they come to when they have problems? Hmmm?
  • 0 Hide
    popatim , November 20, 2013 5:46 PM
    Quote:
    skit75
    How are you still allowed to post here?


    Because he makes valid points which do not twitch the ban hammer like some of your comments do.

    I feel the same way JD does. There's no way the tv was discounted to make up for its spying and neither is my cellphone mind you. If they want to know my habits, pay me for them. If they want me to scan and bag my own groceries, gimme a discount. For the shelf price I can have a cashier do it and not have the headaches associated from the stupid self-service stations.

    When you find out google made ten thousand dollars from serving you targeted ads gathered from their services that watch you, dont you think you deserve a piece of that for using their services to begin with?
  • 0 Hide
    lunix , November 20, 2013 7:08 PM
    @JD88
    If you don't get why it's wrong to snoop on your customers without their knowledge, and why it's wrong to not give a f*** when found out, or the fact that this is the environment we live in now...
    If you don't get why what the NSA is doing is a disaster waiting to happen...

    Then yes, you should go watch TV on your LG and not worry about anything. Don't watch the History Channel, though, you may end up making the connection. Don't do that to yourself, man, they love ya just the way you are.
  • 0 Hide
    Darkk , November 20, 2013 8:26 PM
    Some of you are missing the point. Privacy is slowing eroding everyday if we don't stand up and do something about it the corporations and government will know every time you flushed the toilet. They are getting into our business without compensation is where I draw the line.

    Want to know about me then ask nicely otherwise stay out of my way and out of my business.

  • 0 Hide
    Achoo22 , November 20, 2013 9:50 PM
    I'm truly relieved to see so many right-minded folks posting their displeasure on this matter. It's a failing of our society that ethics haven't caught up to technology, and a failing of our government that law hasn't either. Any device that performs actions that aren't central to its advertised purpose should be both unpopular and illegal. In this case, we intended to buy a television viewing device and not a personalized advertising device. The value and usefulness of the leaked information aren't the issue; the issue is that all personal information should be disseminated only on a need-to-know basis, and LG most certainly doesn't need to know the data they are collecting in order to provide the functionality that consumers expect from the device.
  • 0 Hide
    banana joe , November 21, 2013 3:53 AM
    Say hello to the Big Brother! He's here! He's everywhere!
    I don't know what's worst, the fact that they continuously and indiscriminately spy on us, or the fact that we let them like it was normal. We are so astute we actually willingly give them all our personal information... Facebook, anyone? Rings a bell?
  • -1 Hide
    Aegean BM , November 21, 2013 9:35 AM
    Some have posted that a filename today may hurt you decades later when you decide to become a CEO, elected official, or similar VIP. I agree, although the scenario need not be so grandiose. Two years from now you may apply for a job and get turned down because the hiring company uses a background checking company that pays for info from info aggregators of whom one source was LG. To make it worse, no one will tell you it was a file in 2013 called Midgets.Gone.Wild.Daytona.mp4. It'll be the usual benign "Sorry, we choose another candidate."

    To make it even worse, it wasn't even your file. Your friend brought over a thumb drive to share some TED talks together. You never saw the damaging file. And for the coup de gras, if you had, you would seen your friend's family reunion, complete with cute toddlers in the kiddie pool, throwing sand at the camera, putting sand down the diaper, and of course eating sand.

    Please understand that there need not be a conspiracy to take away your freedom or hurt you. Bad things happen because the info collectors never intended to hurt you and you have nothing to hide, so both parties assume nothing bad will happen. What's all the hoopla if you've nothing criminal to hide? Bad things can happen as an un-intended side effect from normal business and government actions.
  • 0 Hide
    skit75 , November 21, 2013 9:52 AM
    Quote:
    Quote:
    skit75
    How are you still allowed to post here?
    Quote:


    Because he makes valid points which do not twitch the ban hammer like some of your comments do.

    I feel the same way JD does. There's no way the tv was discounted to make up for its spying and neither is my cellphone mind you. If they want to know my habits, pay me for them. If they want me to scan and bag my own groceries, gimme a discount. For the shelf price I can have a cashier do it and not have the headaches associated from the stupid self-service stations.

    When you find out google made ten thousand dollars from serving you targeted ads gathered from their services that watch you, dont you think you deserve a piece of that for using their services to begin with?


    @popatim
    That wasn't me asking why he is allowed to post here. That was JD88's message that I quoted. Scroll up Moderator ^^
  • 0 Hide
    S Brideau , November 21, 2013 9:53 AM
    Doesn't Google already do this with Gmail to give ads tailored to your tastes and habits. I don't see that much difference with what LG is doing now with their SmartTVs. I'd still probably block the addresses myself if I had a smartTV, but I still have my older LG LD450 37" TV.
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