
Until now only the major makers have offered boards for AMD's hot Socket 939 Athlon 64 processor, and they were relatively pricey. But now the motherboards for this platform have finally arrived en masse, and can be found most anywhere. Socket 939 systems work with dual-channel memory and offer high performance at an acceptable cost, making them very attractive. Unfortunately, by focusing at first only on high-end models, AMD ruined what could have been a dream launch for the platform.
The reason they did this is understandable, though. At 144 and 193 mm2 for the 512 kB and 1 MB L2 cache versions respectively, the Athlon 64 chips are not exactly small. Unlike Intel, so far AMD can only manufacture on 200mm wafers, compared to Intel's 300mm, which naturally limits the production runs. That means that AMD probably had somewhat low yield per wafer, and may not have been able to accommodate a sudden surge in demand.
But now there are processors from AMD's new 90nm production process that are generating quite a buzz, thanks to their laudably low heat dissipation. So far, AMD has released Athlon 64 processors based on the Winchester core as 3000+, 3200+ and 3500+ (1.8 to 2.2 GHz) parts - just the ones we find especially attractive, as they provide high performance at a reasonable price. Plus, they already feature plenty of leeway for overclocking.
The PCI Express chipsets that are now becoming increasingly available are meant to be an additional sales catalyst for the Athlon 64 CPUs in Socket 939. While VIA has yet to unveil the K8T890, the Radeon Xpress from ATI has thus far failed to really catch on. For that reason, every one of the first boards uses the nForce 4 Ultra from NVIDIA , which dominates in terms of both price and feature set.
But while PCI Express makes inroads, AGP isn't giving up easily. While PCI Express components are finally starting to be a good investment when it comes to buying new products, it can still make perfectly good sense to buy an AGP board. This is especially the case if your wallet still hasn't recovered from what you paid for a high-end AGP graphics card a few months ago, and you don't care to shell out again for a new one.
Finally, we'd like to mention the buzzword "SLI," which stands for "Scalable Link Interface." This NVIDIA interface enables two graphics cards to be linked so that in theory, 3D performance can be doubled. This of course requires two x16 PCIe slots for graphics cards, and the first chipset suitable to the task is NVIDIA's nForce4 SLI. A model for the Pentium 4 is slated to follow, and VIA has also been working on a similar product for quite some time. Since this market has been considered extremely exclusive and high-priced until now, we only included two SLI boards with nForce4 SLI in the test for the sake of completeness: the Asus A8N-SLI Deluxe and MSI K8N Diamond.
All other candidates are based on either VIA's K8T800 Pro (AGP), the K8T890 (PCI Express), the SiS 755FX and the NVIDIA chipsets nForce3 Ultra (AGP) and nForce 4 Ultra (PCI Express).
The benefits of the Athlon 64 are such that if you ask well-informed users that question, they're likely to scoff at you. If you want to know the details, we recommend you read one of our most recent processor articles, such as the test of the 3.8 GHz P4-570, which contains benchmark results and thermal loss measurements that paint a fairly clear picture. Here are the facts in brief:
- Intel has been doing battle against high thermal losses in the latest Pentium 4 Prescott since the beginning of 2004. Even though the parts are already being produced using modern 90nm technology, high leakage currents remain a problem. How well or poorly this can eventually be mastered is reflected in Intel's classification of the P4 in two thermal design types (PRB0 and PRB1). The first specification limits thermal design power to 84 W, whereas the latter is supposed to turn out up to 115 W of power. Only recently did 3.4 GHz P4 PRB0 models appear.
- While AMD's 130nm processors are no energy-saving marvels, either, they at least offer the "Cool & Quiet" feature. Provided you have the right Windows driver and BIOS support, this allows you to gradually lower the clock speed and the CPU core voltage at low load all the way to 800 MHz, which significantly reduces thermal loss.
- In terms of performance, AMD processors remain a step ahead of Intel models, despite the fact that AMD has only just now hit 2.6 GHz while Intel churns along at up to 3.8 GHz. This shows once again that clock speed alone isn't everything, and is the main rationale behind the "plus" some AMD processors sport after their names. For years, the label was meant to make it easy to compare Intel models (though AMD has tended to go overboard with the numbers game from time to time.)
- The AMD processor's integrated memory controller works more efficiently than Intel's conventional architecture. For that reason, the use of DDR400 memory (in dual-channel mode for double the bandwidth) represents no handicap whatsoever in terms of performance, and has the practical advantage that it currently costs less than DDR2-533 RAM.
Personal preferences are also a decisive factor in any CPU purchase decision, to be sure. After all, a Mercedes fan isn't likely to switch to BMW overnight. From a technical standpoint, however, AMD has been offering customers more for their money for months now.
Board Revision: 1.1
BIOS Version: 1.7
The AV8 has already been on the market for several months, which is why it is based on an AGP chipset - the K8T800 Pro from VIA. Abit clearly put some thought behind the design, packing the board with an array of high-quality features. While the buyer doesn't get an additional mass storage controller beyond the two UltraATA/133 channels and two SATA ports, Abit thought to include a Gigabit Ethernet controller from VIA as well as a FireWire chip. Plus you get all the features of the µGuru feature (overclocking, monitoring) and a decent sound system with optical digital in/out. With the exception of the µGuru software, Abit saved some costs on the software.
Abit sent us an extensive manual in English and a brief installation guide that gives experienced users the most pertinent information at a glance.
Enthusiasts will enjoy the µGuruClock option. It's a small tabletop module that actually looks like a travel alarm clock. Once you connect the cables to the computer, the µGuruClock displays a host of features offered by µGuru. It's also possible to recall previously-saved overclocking settings during operation.









Included Software

Abit throws in a bunch of its own software, but basically, all of the programs belong to µGuru. Abit EQ is for the display, while the OC Guru enables convenient overclocking. A neat gadget, the "Power Cycle Control", is set up to resemble an odometer and shows how long the system has been running and how often it has been restarted.




Board Revision: 0.0
BIOS Version: n/a
The K8X890 Pro was the first board to reach our lab with VIA's new PCI Express chipset K8T890 Pro. Albatron restricts itself to the standard PCIe features of the Northbridge, and thus comes with a x16 slot for the graphics card and a x4 slot for other peripheral cards. While most multimedia expansion cards will certainly get by with just x1 PCIe, the x4 PCIe slot is intended most of all for network and mass storage controllers.
Beyond this, the board boasts nothing spectacular. Albatron includes a Gigabit network chip from Marvell and a FireWire chip from VIA. Also on board is a high-end PCI audio controller from VIA (VT1720), so the mere three PCI slots should be sufficient. Users with several hard disks might miss an extra controller, but the two SATA ports (with RAID support) and two UltraATA/133 channels are enough for most purposes.
All connections are clearly color-coded, which making the board as bright as a Christmas tree, but also makes it a lot easier to plug in fiddlier cables like the power and reset switches. One special feature of this board is the fourth "power width modulation" phase of the voltage regulator module, which is easily installed on the board. Unfortunately, however, our test unit did not contain the motherboard's entire standard package, so we cannot comment on it.
The board's performance in the test was within the anticipated range. Due to the integrated memory controller, the processor has little room for fluctuation. Only the new PCIe interface could make a difference, but graphics bandwidth is no criterion for today's applications. In the final analysis, the Albatron K8X890 Pro ranks in the middle of the pack, although there is surely some room for improvement.






Board Revision: 1.02
BIOS Version: 1008
The A8V can be considered another veteran of the Socket 939 market, as it was one of the first boards to reach our test lab about a half a year ago. Like the Abit, the Asus board is based on the K8T800 Pro from VIA.
As we've come to expect from this maker, the concentration is on all things useful and cheap. The board is thus packed with a host of practical overclocking options, as well as an outstanding hardware design. Features include a Gigabit network controller, FireWire, and an additional RAID controller from Promise (2x SATA, 1x UltraATA/133). Asus has been coloring its pin panels for some time now to facilitate cabling.
As usual a parcel of software is included. Inside the box we found Asus Update, a screensaver, PC-Cillin Anti Virus 2002, as well as Personal Firewall from Symantec. The cable set is also more than ample.







Included Software




Board Revision: 1.02
BIOS Version: 1003 Beta
The A8N-SLI Deluxe is the proud and rightful flagship of the Asus line of Athlon 64 boards. It goes without saying that it features NVIDIA's nForce4-SLI chipset; thus, it offers two x16 PCIe slots, spaced far enough apart to accommodate even graphics cards with monstrous cooling solutions.
The chipset features a sound system, a 1 Gbit network controller, four SATA connectors, two UltraATA/100 channels and a whopping ten USB 2.0 ports. Asus has back-panel connectors for four of them, while the rest require adapters. Also included are a Gigabit Ethernet chip, and a SATA RAID controller from Silicon Image (Sil3114). A FireWire chip from Texas Instruments is also present.
The nForce4 chip sports an active cooler, which we are usually quick to criticize due to their generally high noise level. But the component makes sense here, more for mechanical reasons than for overclocking purposes. Fast graphics cards with extravagant cooling solutions could quickly collide with a huge passive cooling element, so the smaller size of an active cooler is a wise choice.








Included Software

As with all deluxe boards, the A8N-SLI comes with a comprehensive package of included hardware and software. In addition to a complete set of cables, adapters and manuals, Asus also throws in WinDVD Creator Platinum 2, which lets you create DVDs using a TV stream or other video source. The latest version of WinDVD Platinum, version 6, is included for DVD playback. DVD Copy 2 is provided for copying DVD-9 videos to DVD-5 (8.4 to 4.7 GB) - though note that version 3 is already available. Finally, there's Discmaster 2, an easy-to-use CD and DVD burner program, and the usual Asus utilities as described above.
Dubious: Even "Normal" Mode Overheats Graphics Card

There was one thing we found really irritating: if the PEG (PCIe Graphics) link is set to normal mode in the BIOS, the GeForce 6800 GT graphics card runs at a chip speed of 360 MHz instead of 350 MHz, and with 515 MHz memory speed as opposed to 500 MHz. The correct values are only activated when you select "slow". Despite the fact that Asus now mentions this fact, we feel any setting option marked "normal" should also yield the desired results.

Board Revision: 2.0
BIOS Version: 4b10
IT journalists will have an easy time recalling the name of the EP-9NDA3+, because in Jargonese, NDA stands for "non-disclosure agreement", a contract that is often signed before technical briefings are held on future products.
In this case the N designates the chipset: the nForce3 Ultra with its AGP-8X port. For height considerations, however, EPoX unfortunately decided to put an active cooler on the chipset component.
The EPoX board stands out thanks to its characteristic green hue, easy-to-read model description, and Port-80 debug system, the display of which is found on the rear of the board on the left. It displays the current system condition as hex codes while the computer is booting, making debugging easier if anything should go wrong.
EPoX has equipped its board with a Gigabit network chip and additional FireWire controller, but did not include an extra mass storage controller. Unfortunately the EPoX board lags behind a bit in the benchmarks, as activating the 1T timing in the BIOS causes a crash during Windows startup. For that reason we had to use 2T for the test, which readily explains the slightly reduced performance. A forthcoming BIOS update should soon remedy this problem, however.








Included Software

EPoX has included a Flash utility that lets you run a BIOS update under Windows (MagicBIOS). Beyond that, there's also a 90-day test version of Symantec Internet Security 2004.
Wasay Pro Magic Plus can set restore points that allow you to restore defined system states if need be. Wasay is activated every time you boot and launches before the Windows interface. But we had a tough time indeed with this tool, because instead of helping it turned out to be a real pain: our Windows installation signed off in a flash.
The last program in the bundle is called Wasay ImageIt and is used to create partition images. But its professional application may be limited by the fact that only FAT16/FAT32 partitions can be entered as targets.


Board Revision: n/a
BIOS Version: F1
The GA-K8NXP-9 stands out visually due to its bright colors, but more noteworthy is the grand total of eight Serial-ATA ports: four from the nForce4 Ultra, and four from a Sil3114 controller from Silicon Image.
Penny-pinching is not evident elsewhere on the board, either: Gigabyte's DualBIOS is back again, as is a Gigabit network connection and the 100 MBit interface of the nForce4 chipset. The sound system is AC97-compliant, and USB fetishists can run up to six additional ports from the case using adapter cables (four ports are useable). Not one but two FireWire chips are on board: one for 1394a and a second for the 800 Mbit/s 1394b.
Only three PCI slots are available, but for that the user gets an A1 state-of-the-art PCI Express board with an x16 connection for the graphics cards and two x1 connectors for additional hardware.
This Gigabyte board also features the company's own DPS (Dual Power System), which houses additional voltage converters on a small sub-board that is inserted in the free blue slot. Even though the six-phase system does not run nearly as efficiently as high-end four-phase systems, it nonetheless provides for an optimal power supply to the CPU.
We were highly annoyed by the fact that Gigabyte sent us a board with a BIOS version that could not be coaxed into running slower than 202.9 MHz, meaning it's already 1.5% overclocked when it leaves the factory. Loading the latest version of the BIOS from the Gigabyte website finally allowed us to record a HyperTransport speed of 200.9 MHz. That's still too high, but it's within bounds.
In the end, this board placed among the top third in the benchmarks. Unfortunately, this test board was not delivered with the mobo's whole standard package, so we cannot comment on it fully.




Board Revision: n/a
BIOS Version: F6
The second board from Gigabyte also arrived too late, and therefore did not contain the actual standard package. The K8NSNXP-939 is based on the nForce3 Ultra, so it is an AGP board, and comes with a total of five PCI slots.
In terms of hardware design, Gigabyte offers nearly as much here as the K8NXP-9, except for the extra SATA-RAID controller. Since the nForce3 only has two ports for SATA devices, Gigabyte planted a Sil3512 on the board so that it can at least offer four.
Here, too, we have two network connections, one of which is Gigabit-compatible. The obligatory sound system is included, as are DualBIOS and DPS - although in this case, DPS gets by without an extra module and is integrated directly onto the board instead. We liked the two FireWire chips; as is the case with the PCIe board, one is 1394a while the other handles 1394b. It's a pricey extra, but FireWire b is unique in being able to handle external hard drives without bottlenecks.




Board Revision: n/a
BIOS Version: September 14, 2004
Taiwanese tiger Foxconn markets the WinFast label in its AMD-based boards. Traditionally, Foxconn has mainly produced Intel-based boards under its own brand name.
This is the only board in the test to use the 755FX chipset from SiS, which is far less common than the nForce chipsets from NVIDIA or VIA's K8T series. In terms of features, the SiS chipset is about on a par with the others. It combines an AGP-based architecture with the well-known Southbridge SiS964, featuring two UltraATA/133 channels and two SATA ports. The requisite AC97 sound system and a 100 MBit network controller are also on board. SiS is not planning to launch a Gigabit model until later chip generations, mainly for cost reasons.
In addition to the chipset features there is also a FireWire chip from Agere, and an additional Silicon Image SATA controller that adds two more ports into the mix. We were impressed by the board's snazzy design, as none of the flat cables get in the way of expansion cards. Plus, WinFast has happily opted out of using an active cooler for the Northbridge chip.
Unfortunately, our attempt to update the Flash BIOS failed. Users have to download both the Flash program and the data file from www.foxconnchannel.com. This can be quite confusing to buyers, as the connection between Foxconn and WinFast is not explained. When we tried to flash the BIOS, AWDFLASH reported an "unknown flash type", so the update was unsuccessful. This did not lead to any problems, however, and the benchmark results are also solid.







Board Revision: n/a
BIOS Version: n/a
The K8N Diamond is the second SLI board in the test lineup. MSI leaves less room between the two x16 PCIe connections than Asus did, however, and was also apparently uninterested in including any additional x1 PCIe ports.
MSI's CoreCell technology makes another showing here, enabling auto-overclocking to several configurable degrees as the need arises. The on-board sound system is not based on a simple AC97 codec, but using a Creative chip (the SoundBlaster Live 24 bit). There are two network controllers: a Gigabit model and one for 100 MBit LAN.
MSI also thought to add a FireWire chip, and a combined Bluetooth/WLAN controller, including a matching aerial that MSI throws into the package. This must be placed in the red PCI slot and also requires an internal USB port.
When RAM is operated using the BIOS auto settings, we only achieved a maximum memory throughput of 4.9 GB/s. After entering the right timing parameters manually, were we able to score 5.9 GB/s, which was reflected in the benchmarks as a noticeable improvement. Better SPD recognition by the mainboard would be great, especially since the other boards in the test did not have this problem.
We should note however that there will be differences between the board we tested and the delivery version: the heatsink via the voltage converters takes the form of a heat pipe solution. Mounting another fan is an advisable option for use under extreme conditions, such as extreme overclocking or later dual-core processors.








Board Revision: 1.x
BIOS Version: 1.4
The K8N Neo2 is based on NVIDIA's nForce3 Ultra and is representative of the AGP era; it has been available in the stores for many months already. The principle difference between this board and the others is its unusual design. The board features horizontally-mounted DIMM sockets that are a boon for ventilating the memory modules, since this corresponds to the direction that the airflow mostly takes in the system.
MSI has given its boards an extra SATA controller with ports located between the AGP slot and the processor socket. The connectors for the floppy drive and the two UltraATA/133 channels are at the other end of the board and so in close proximity to the drive slots common in tower housings. MSI was also thoughtful enough to provide a FireWire chip and even color-code the pins on the connector panel. A surround sound system is de rigueur these days and was not forgotten here either.
MSI uses an active fan to cool the nForce3, which we usually flatly advise against. In this case, however, it makes sense, since a passive cooling element would take up more space above and could come into conflict with expansion cards or with a cooler on a graphics card.
The K8N Neo2 already has the red PCI slot, which is handled with priority and comes up with additional power as required. This is suitable either for professional sound cards or the MSI-proprietary Bluetooth/WLAN module; it also takes other PCI cards as well.







Board Revision: n/a
BIOS Version: 1.3
Soltek bases the K8TPRO-939 on the K8T800 Pro from VIA and thus offers an AGP x8 interface instead of x16 PCIe. The trademark of Soltek boards has long been their purple components, which are in evidence here.
Soltek added an IDE-RAID controller with two additional ATA/133 channels, which complement the chipset's two UltraATA/133 ports and two SATA connectors. Soltek also integrated a FireWire chip and a Gigabit/Ethernet controller from VIA. The producer stuck with the capability of the chipset's audio system including an AC97 codec.
Unfortunately, the board only features two fan connectors. It also would have been more practical to place the ATA/133 ports further "up" on the board. Pretty nifty on the other hand is the Port-80 module, whose LED displays the current system state while booting and thus aids in identifying faults if the system fails to start up properly.
Should you require a parallel port for this board, you'll have to buy an adapter. It is provided, but does not lead out from the case. Instead, the back panel features optical digital input and output ports, and room was made for a serial port too.





Included Software
In the package we found a CD with VirtualDrive 7.0 (the latest version is 9.0 now), a CD/DVD imaging program that lets you integrate several images into the system at once as virtual drives. RestoreIt 3.0 serves to create restore points of the hard drive. However, the program is already all the way up to Version 6! PC-Cillin 2004 is a popular antivirus program, so it's too bad the board only comes with a 180-day test version. Once again we have the Personal Firewall from Symantec and some modest anti-spam software.
The back of the CD cover also features logos of programs that were neither contained on the CD nor mentioned on the box: Partition Magic 6.0 SE and Drive Image 4.0. We're guessing Soltek changed the standard package at the last minute.
One thing that is clearly labeled on the package is the overclocking tool RedStorm 2, which does not, however, work yet with this Socket-939 motherboard. According to Soltek, it should be functional sometime in the first quarter of 2005.


| AMD Processors (Socket 939) | |
|---|---|
| 200 MHz FSB (DUAL DDR400) | Athlon 64 4000+ (2400 MHz 128/1024 kB) |
| Memory | |
| DDR400 I | 2x 512 MB - DDR400 (200 MHz)
Corsair TwinX CMX512-3200XL Timings : CL 2.0-2-2-5 |
| DDR400 II | 2x 512 MB - DDR400 (200 MHz)
OCZ Platinum Rev 2 Timings : CL 2.0-2-2-5 |
| Common Hardware | |
| Graphics Card I
PCI-Express |
NVIDIA GeForce 6 Series
GPU : NVIDIA GeForce 6800 GT Memory : 256 MB GDDR3-SDRAM |
| Graphics Card II
AGP |
Sparkle GeForce 6800 GT
GPU : NVIDIA GeForce 6800 GT Memory : 256 MB GDDR3-SDRAM |
| Hard Drive | Hitachi DeskStar 7K250 HDS722525VLSA80
250 GB, 8 MB Cache, 7200 rpm, SATA |
| DVD/CD-ROM | MSI MS-8216 16x DVD |
| Software | |
| NVIDIA Graphic | Detonator 66.93 |
| NVIDIA Chipset Driver | Forceware 5.10 |
| NVIDIA Chipset Driver (nForce4) | Forceware 6.31 beta |
| VIA Chipset Driver | Hyperion 5.55 |
| SiS AGP Driver | 1.17e |
| SiS IDE Driver | 2.04a |
| DirectX | 9.0c |
| OS | Windows XP Professional, 5.1.2600 |
Benchmarks And Settings
| Benchmarks and Settings
OpenGL |
|
|---|---|
| Wolfenstein | Version : 2.55 |
| Enemy Territory | 1024 x 786 - 32 bit
timedemo 1 / demo demo4 Graphics detail = Normal |
| 3D Studio Max 6.0 | Characters "Dragon_Charater_rig" |
| Discreet | Pixel : 1280 x 1024
Rendering Single |
| Doom 3 | Version 1.0.1262
1024 x 768 - 32 bit medium quality timedemo demo1 |
| DirectX 8 | |
| Unreal Tournament 2004 | Version : 3204
1024 x 768 / 32 bit / Audio = off thg9 assault botmatch |
| DirectX 9 | |
| 3DMark 2005 | 1024 x 786 - 32 bit
Graphics and CPU Default Benchmark |
| FarCry | Version 1.1 Build 1256
1280 x 1024 - 32 bit qualtity options = Very High |
| Synthetic | |
| PCMark 2004 Pro | Version : 1.2.0
CPU and Memory Tests |
| SiSoftware Sandra 2005 | Version 2005.1.10.37
CPU Test = MultiMedia / CPU Arithmetic Memory Test = Bandwidth Benchmark |
| Audio | |
| Lame MP3 | Version 3.96
Wave 17:14 minutes (182 MB) to mp3 32 - 320 kbit VBR = level 3 |
| libvorbis OGG | Version : 1.0.1
Wave 17:14 minutes (182 MB) to ogg qualtity = 5 |
| Video | |
| Auto Gordian Knot
DivX 5.21 XviD 1.0.2 |
Version : 1.72 Beta
Audio = AC3 6ch Custom size = 100 MB Resulution settings = 640x256 Codec = XviD and DivX 5 Audio = CBR MP3, kbps 192 |
| Pinnacle Studio 9 | Version : 9.1.2
Rendering - DVD Compatible no Audio |
| Applications | |
| Winrar | Version 3.40
303 MB, 47 Files Compression = Best Dictionary = 4096 kB |




DirectX 9







Video





Application

Any way you look at it, the two SLI boards from Asus and MSI occupy a special position, as their nForce4-SLI chipset gives them more inherent potential for performance and future-proofing. This comes at a "deluxe" price as well, of course, but if you got a lot of cash for Christmas, you may want to seriously consider getting hold of one of these boards. Thanks to PCI Express and SLI, you should be all set for at least the next 18 months - upgrading your CPU to a dual-core model and acquiring a second NVIDIA graphics card should allow system performance to remain at the cutting edge for a long time.
One important tradeoff between these two cards is that while the K8N Diamond from MSI supports Bluetooth and 54 MBit WLAN, the A8N-SLI Deluxe from Asus offers two x1 PCIe slots where MSI does not - although the second x16 slot can be outfitted with a x1 card in a pinch.
Abit's AV8 and Soltek's K8TPRO-939 stood out thanks to the rear panel of the VIA chipset-equipped boards. Abit offers extra goodies in the form of extensive overclocking options and a solid design, as well as its µGuruClock. This desktop model is a nice treat for enthusiasts who want to monitor the system and restore preprogrammed overclocking settings. The Soltek board is particularly suitable for users looking for a cost-efficient way to upgrade their present system, thanks to its four UltraATA/133 ports, AGP 8X and five PCI slots.
We definitely recommend PCI Express for anyone considering purchasing a new PC, and also for those users contemplating a complete system makeover. Most of the boards in stores are nForce4 based, and both the Gigabyte K8NXP and the K8N Neo2 from MSI performed well. If for some reason you have to go with PCI Express components with a x4 interface, you should take a look at the K8X890 Pro from Albatron, as the manufacturer has now bundled the four PCIe lanes of the K8T890 chipset into a single fast port. The best bargains of the bunch could be the boards from EPoX and WinFast, with EPoX using the nForce3 Ultra, and WinFast the 755FX from SiS.
Stay tuned for a follow-up article early in the year in which we will present more boards.










