Sign in with
Sign up | Sign in

Hoping The Best Is Yet To Come

AMD A10-7850K And A8-7600: Kaveri Gives Us A Taste Of HSA
By

AMD deserves praise for championing heterogeneous computing, and doing it in a way that opens up the benefits to multiple market segments, hardware vendors, developers, and ultimately a larger number of end users. Even as Intel increases the footprint of the graphics engine on its own processors and shores up driver support for compute, AMD gets most of the credit for pushing forward with OpenCL evangelization.

The real purpose of Kaveri is encapsulated in this diagram. Leveraging the right resources for any given workload can have a profound impact on performance and power—it just takes developers optimizing for the potential available in today’s GPUs.

Unfortunately, much of our benchmark suite (just like today’s software landscape) isn’t put together with those resources in mind. We started folding in OpenCL-capable tests a long time ago, and we currently have a number of metrics able to expose the benefits of GPU acceleration. Even those tasks didn’t shine brightly on Kaveri today, though. Despite the lack of innovation we’ve seen from Intel on the PC desktop, its Haswell architecture cuts through most tasks faster and at lower power than what AMD is showing.

Of course, the notable exception is in the gaming space. Intel does have an ace in its Iris Pro graphics, but charges far too much for them and is very limited in exposing the GT3/GT3e implementation of its GPU. That leaves the door open for AMD to kick HD Graphics 4600 around, which it does. Even the 45 W version of A8-7600 has no trouble trouncing Intel's 84 W Core i5-4670K. The difference between them is made more significant when one pumps out playable frame rates and the other cannot.

AMD was pretty explicit that it designed Kaveri to fit in thermal envelopes from 15 to 95 W, but that it optimized for the middle of that range. Today’s numbers confirm the company’s assessment.

A10-7850K, the 95 W flagship, is a capable little gaming processor. It should be able to handle most games at 1920x1080 using decent detail settings. Thanks to a 512-shader GCN-based graphics engine, it’s faster than A10-6800K. But when you switch over to the other desktop-oriented workloads in our test suite, it merely trades blows with Richland’s top-end model. But expect to pay an extra $30+ for it (AMD says the -7850K will sell for $173, though it hasn’t shown up for sale on Newegg yet). And you’ll need a Socket FM2+-equipped motherboard, too.

Personally, I’d go for a $75 Athlon X4 740 and a Radeon HD 7750 for close to the same amount of money…at least until HSA-optimized software gives us a reason to favor Kaveri-based APUs.

There’s a lot more to get excited about at the 65 and 45 W power levels. AMD’s bias to the GPU is evident in games where the A8-7600, constrained to a 45 W TDP, destroys the 84 W Core i5 with HD Graphics 4600 and its own 45 W A8-6500T. Kaveri doesn’t have to lean on games, either. Its application performance is quite a bit better than the similarly-priced Richland-based APU we used for comparison. The caveat is that Intel does the low-power, high-performance song and dance more convincingly.

With its emphasis shifting away from big desktop CPUs, and even the 100 W APUs it used to herald at the top of its stack, AMD appears most focused on 65 W and lower. That’s probably not what performance-hungry enthusiasts want to hear, but with significant real-world gains in graphics and general-purpose computing, Kaveri looks to be stronger mainstream desktop and mobile contender than Richland.

The story of this APU isn’t opened and closed today. AMD is championing the Heterogeneous System Architecture, and Kaveri represents the pinnacle of its work so far. Although we have a better idea of what HSA might enable, there is still a lot of work to be done on the software side. And with OpenCL 2.0 recently ratified, we’ll only start scratching the surface in 2014.

And so we step away from Kaveri marveling at the SoC’s potential and eager for developers to start pushing out optimized apps, but lacking a real reason to make a purchase today. Fortunately, this platform doesn’t have to be programmed to specifically. AMD just needs ISVs to adopt OpenCL 2.0. From there, the merits of HSA should become more apparent. We look forward to watching the saga unfold.

Display all 172 comments.
This thread is closed for comments
Top Comments
  • 13 Hide
    vertexx , January 16, 2014 5:30 AM
    While the gaming enthusiast may not have much here to get excited about, I think the real story here is the A8-7600. Especially at 45W, the numbers are quite impressive for this part.

    Of course, the other part of this story will be the adoption of HSA and Mantle. In this regard, I think AMD is playing its cards right. If you want to provide incentive for game developers to invest in developing for Mantle, that economic incentive is not going to come from providing a high-end part that tries to compete with high-end discrete GPUs. That economic incentive, and I believe it's huge, is in lowering the cost of entry to play your game.

    With the A8-7600, I believe AMD is providing a tremendous market opportunity and incentive if, with the combination of Kaveri plus embedded technologies (Mantle & True Audio), you can provide a playable gaming environment for the mass market. Admittedly, it may not be a "playable gaming environment" from an enthusiast standpoint, but as an entry point, it is quite good enough. It will be important for AMD to show that the release of Mantle for BF4 impacts performance for the Kaveri APUs in particular. More specifically, they will need to show that Mantle makes BF4 playable on a 7600. If they are successful in that regard, then I think they may really have something exciting here.

    I'm hoping AMD is successful in this, because it's obvious that the desktop CPU performance race has reached a point of diminishing returns. Kudus for AMD for potentially changing the game in the industry.

    All that said, they screwed up the pricing for the high-end. It needs to be $30 cheaper, and what is even the point of the 7700K? The 7850K at ~$145 and the 7600 where it is would have made much more sense if they want to incent adoption of this technology. The other point is they need to get motherboard manufacturers on-board with bringing more ITX FM2+ motherboards to market at different price points.
  • 11 Hide
    Someone Somewhere , January 16, 2014 4:23 AM
    Quote:
    A10-7850k is slower than A10-6800K ?? WTF.


    I got the opposite impression. Which graph are you looking at?
Other Comments
  • 0 Hide
    vipervoid1 , January 16, 2014 3:54 AM
    Somethings with Diagram u provided at page 9 ~ Core i5 4760k @@Please fix that ~
  • 1 Hide
    Someone Somewhere , January 16, 2014 4:10 AM
    Yeah, almost all the diagrams refer to the 4760K.

    Given that AM3+ looks like it's done, it would have been nice to see a 6-core chip. Still, one of these may end up in my next laptop.
  • 1 Hide
    cangelini , January 16, 2014 4:21 AM
    Will get the charts fixed shortly--thanks for the catch!
  • 11 Hide
    Someone Somewhere , January 16, 2014 4:23 AM
    Quote:
    A10-7850k is slower than A10-6800K ?? WTF.


    I got the opposite impression. Which graph are you looking at?
  • 8 Hide
    Jaroslav Jandek , January 16, 2014 4:24 AM
    Thank you for the article (especially the power consumption measurements), Chris. It is definitely an improvement over Richland but kind of boring (disappointingly expectable).

    I really like where AMD is going (HSA, GCN and TrueAudio).Too bad the manufacturing process of GlobalFoundries just can't match Intel's.

    Also, it would be interesting to see the new Bay Trail Pentium or Celeron CPUs (whichever is closer in performance) in the Efficiency graphs.
  • -1 Hide
    Someone Somewhere , January 16, 2014 4:25 AM
    I'm fairly sure that this is on TSMC's 28nm node. GlobalFoundries can't do that yet; this is on the same process used for AMD GPUs currently.
  • 0 Hide
    Jaroslav Jandek , January 16, 2014 4:45 AM
    Quote:
    I'm fairly sure that this is on TSMC's 28nm node. GlobalFoundries can't do that yet; this is on the same process used for AMD GPUs currently.

    28nm SHP from GlobalFoundries. AMD bought over $1 billion worth of wafers from them in december...

    I guess you have been reading the articles from a year ago about AMD still using TSMC despite promises of GlobalFoundries' new 28nm SHP process.
  • 9 Hide
    jacobian , January 16, 2014 5:12 AM
    I don't really believe into the whole HSA smoke-screen. By the time HSA-enabled apps take off, you will be ready to upgrade from your CPU again. The one terrible truth that stands out right now is that at current prices, the flagship Kaveri A10 doesn't make any sense whatsoever. Kaveri A8? Maybe. Richland A10-6790K? Perhaps. But the Kaveri A10 at $180 is a just a joke, specially after all that hype.
  • 3 Hide
    Someone Somewhere , January 16, 2014 5:16 AM
    CPUs are usually released at ridiculous prices, and come down over a month or two.
  • 13 Hide
    vertexx , January 16, 2014 5:30 AM
    While the gaming enthusiast may not have much here to get excited about, I think the real story here is the A8-7600. Especially at 45W, the numbers are quite impressive for this part.

    Of course, the other part of this story will be the adoption of HSA and Mantle. In this regard, I think AMD is playing its cards right. If you want to provide incentive for game developers to invest in developing for Mantle, that economic incentive is not going to come from providing a high-end part that tries to compete with high-end discrete GPUs. That economic incentive, and I believe it's huge, is in lowering the cost of entry to play your game.

    With the A8-7600, I believe AMD is providing a tremendous market opportunity and incentive if, with the combination of Kaveri plus embedded technologies (Mantle & True Audio), you can provide a playable gaming environment for the mass market. Admittedly, it may not be a "playable gaming environment" from an enthusiast standpoint, but as an entry point, it is quite good enough. It will be important for AMD to show that the release of Mantle for BF4 impacts performance for the Kaveri APUs in particular. More specifically, they will need to show that Mantle makes BF4 playable on a 7600. If they are successful in that regard, then I think they may really have something exciting here.

    I'm hoping AMD is successful in this, because it's obvious that the desktop CPU performance race has reached a point of diminishing returns. Kudus for AMD for potentially changing the game in the industry.

    All that said, they screwed up the pricing for the high-end. It needs to be $30 cheaper, and what is even the point of the 7700K? The 7850K at ~$145 and the 7600 where it is would have made much more sense if they want to incent adoption of this technology. The other point is they need to get motherboard manufacturers on-board with bringing more ITX FM2+ motherboards to market at different price points.
  • 1 Hide
    Au_equus , January 16, 2014 5:40 AM
    There appears to a typo or at least a contradiction on the table (first page), which lists the A10-7700K with 512 shaders. The paragraph below then says it has 384 shaders.
  • 3 Hide
    Nossy , January 16, 2014 5:40 AM
    Basically at this point it is not worth the premium $50-60USD or so over Richland and Trinity. At $180, you can get an i5 3570k at some places like Microcenter. Another disappointing release from AMD.
  • 0 Hide
    The_Trutherizer , January 16, 2014 5:51 AM
    I'm extremely excited to see the results from more HSA compliant apps myself. Some of the benchmarks I have seen are beastly.I'm really starting to think that the APU is a superior approach. With x86 performance past a certain point CPUs with traditional cores will be relegated to specialised servers in the eyes of consumers. I mean how quickly do you want to open an excel spreadsheet or encode or decode music and video? 0.5s or 0.3s?
  • 8 Hide
    nezzymighty , January 16, 2014 5:52 AM
    Quote:
    With the A8-7600, I believe AMD is providing a tremendous market opportunity and incentive if, with the combination of Kaveri plus embedded technologies (Mantle & True Audio), you can provide a playable gaming environment for the mass market. .... they may really have something exciting here.
    @ vertexx ... finally a non troll or die hard Intel/AMD fan that is making sensible points...I used to be a gamer and spent thousands, being a die hard fan of one today's chip makers. Now, as a mainstream user that has to use their money towards real life applications (rather than FPS) like a house, family, children, eating, paying bills, etc... I tend now to look for a solution to spend the disposable income on a solution that is cheap but encompasses the ability to do a little of everything...Well done AMD... please keep the innovation coming, and competition alive too keep prices down for all to enjoy...
  • 1 Hide
    rolli59 , January 16, 2014 5:54 AM
    Well if this is the future from AMD they are going to leave Intel alone in the high end gaming space.
  • -2 Hide
    styrkes , January 16, 2014 5:55 AM
    This measly increase in performance is just shoddy. Wonder what amazing story and hype AMD will put out for their next APU. I'm pretty much done with all this new advanced technology that's supposed to bring increased efficiency, performance, etc. etc. They've been doing this ever since they released their first APU. The next time AMD releases their next APU, I'll just jump straight into the benchmarks, see if that's any good.
  • -8 Hide
    styrkes , January 16, 2014 5:56 AM
    This measly increase in performance is just shoddy. Wonder what amazing story and hype AMD will put out for their next APU. I'm pretty much done with all this new advanced technology that's supposed to bring increased efficiency, performance, etc. etc. They've been doing this ever since they released their first APU. The next time AMD releases their next APU, I'll just jump straight into the benchmarks, see if that's any good.
  • 2 Hide
    Trachu , January 16, 2014 6:02 AM
    A8-7600 paired with R9-240 looks like a good deal. I belive this is a great Chance for AMD here if it sorts Crossfire performance things right Here lays the whole reason to buy APU instead of plain CPU.Why you have not commented about it in your final words when you thought about the alternatives?
  • 6 Hide
    logainofhades , January 16, 2014 6:32 AM
    Quote:
    Basically at this point it is not worth the premium $50-60USD or so over Richland and Trinity. At $180, you can get an i5 3570k at some places like Microcenter. Another disappointing release from AMD.


    Yesterday there was an HD7770 so low that you could get that and an FX 6300 for like $5 more than what newegg is asking for the 7850k. You can get an HD 7750 in that general price range with an FX 6300 now. In desktop, APU's still hold no appeal to me at all. Mobile, they have promise for sure.
Display more comments