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AMD A10-7850K And A8-7600: Kaveri Gives Us A Taste Of HSA

AMD A10-7850K And A8-7600: Kaveri Gives Us A Taste Of HSA
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We've spent the days following CES benchmarking two of AMD's new Kaveri-based APUs. Do the Steamroller x86 architecture, GCN graphics design, and HSA-oriented features impress, or do they come up short against Intel's value-oriented Haswell-based parts?

This year’s CES was my most insane to date. I showed up in Vegas two days earlier, stayed a day later, and managed to fit close to 50 different meetings into a schedule that started early in the morning and didn’t end until late at night. But by the end, I had a solid grasp on the technologies we’ll be seeing in 2014. Some of them are decidedly evolutionary. Others, like Oculus’ Crystal Cove prototype, will fundamentally change PC gaming for the better.

For AMD’s part, it spent CES talking about Kaveri—a design that, on paper, should be interesting stuff for enthusiasts. There are the Steamroller-based x86 cores, giving us a new processor architecture to talk about. This is also the first time AMD’s vaunted Graphics Core Next design finds its way into an APU. The company did a ton of work enabling Heterogeneous System Architecture features for better interplay between computing resources and software developers. And it’s using a new 28 nm manufacturing process from GlobalFoundries.

But although this week's introduction focused on the top-end 95 W A10-7850K, the real emphasis of Kaveri is down in the lower-power segments. Company representatives say engineers designed for the 35 to 45 W range, scaling as high as 95 and as low as 15 W. AMD wants to see APUs in desktops, notebooks, embedded environments, and servers. So, it took the middle road in order to better optimize for those targets. AMD also had to make some compromises on the manufacturing side, better balancing transistor density to enable a 512-shader Radeon graphics core, while ultimately sacrificing CPU speed.

Of course, at the end of the day, once we’ve carefully carved through the architecture and AMD’s vision for Kaveri, what matters most is how this APU family compares to what came before and Intel’s best effort in the same space.

Building A Better Computing Device

Integration is a word that gets thrown around a lot, and often with negative connotation. Ew, integrated graphics, right? But integration is an important part of making complex technologies more affordable. In many cases, it’s very, very good for performance. And there's typically a positive correlation with power, too. By now we all know that AMD’s APUs combine multiple subsystems to allow the fast movement of data between programmable and fixed-function logic, maximizing flexibility and, ideally, making it possible to run demanding workloads on affordable hardware.

That Kaveri includes multiple x86 cores, graphics processing, memory control, cache, hardware-based accelerators, and PCI Express connectivity on a single piece of silicon is no surprise; its predecessor offered a similarly-thorough list of capabilities as well. But if you think of Kaveri as a puzzle, AMD took each piece and tweaked it in such a way that the finished product would reflect the latest technologies, more advanced manufacturing, and another step toward the company’s vision of utilizing the most appropriate resources for any workload.

One component of this approach involved re-thinking lithography. In partnership with GlobalFoundries, AMD is shifting from 32 nm SOI to a 28 nm bulk silicon process. Now, there are associated advantages and disadvantages. Previously, AMD was building its APUs using technology optimized for CPUs. That allowed chips like the A10-6800K to hit clock rates as high as 4.4 GHz through Turbo Core. But tuning for low density, low resistance, and ultimately higher frequencies negatively affected the number of transistors that AMD could fit on a die, limiting the complexity of its GPU. In a world where x86 cores are considered “fast enough” in workloads that wait for user input, the decision was made to slide the scale toward density. AMD calls this APU-optimized, but the bottom line is that it’s using slower, higher-resistance transistors in order to facilitate better area utilization.

The consequence is lower-frequency x86 cores, which you’ll see reflected in a comparison of Kaveri and Richland. AMD says it compensates with a transition from the Piledriver architecture to Steamroller. A focus on improving IPC—or the amount of work each core does per cycle—purportedly yields up to 20% gains, leaving Kaveri net-positive in most x86 workloads.

On the other hand, the APU sports a more potent graphics subsystem, wielding up to 512 shaders based on the GCN architecture. Richland topped out at 384 of the previous-gen VLIW4 ALUs. This clear re-distribution of transistor wealth in favor of the GPU better-addresses the performance-sensitive workloads AMD is targeting (gaming, multimedia, and content creation), while maintaining a status quo in more general-purpose tasks.

All told, Kaveri is a 2.41 billion-transistor SoC crammed into 245 square millimeters. Richland was nearly the same size (246 mm²), but comprising just 1.3 billion transistors. Do you like that? We’re now dismissing billion-plus-transistor processors as pedestrian. This all goes to show the impact of AMD’s shift to 28 nm bulk silicon, optimized for a more GPU-focused die, though.

The Kaveri Family, As It Exists Today

Two models (A10-7850K and A10-7700K) are expected to ship immediately, with a third (A8-7600) surfacing in the first quarter of 2014. The flagship is priced at $173. So, you get a lot of additional goodness, but pay an additional 22% compared to A10-6800K. Even the -7700K is pricier than last-gen's fastest offering at $152. Ahead of its official debut, the -7600 is expected to sell for $119.


A10-7850K
A10-7700K
A8-7600
Graphics Level
Radeon R7
Radeon R7
 Radeon R7
TDP
95 W
95 W
65/45 W
CPU Cores
4
4
4
CPU Base Clock Rate
3.7 GHz
3.4 GHz
3.3 / 3.1 GHz
Max. Turbo Core Clock Rate
4 GHz
3.8 GHz
3.8 / 3.3 GHz
GPU Shaders
512
384
384
GPU Clock Rate
720 MHz
720 MHz720 MHz
"Compute Cores"
12
10
10
Price
$173
$152
$119

Both of the just-launched Kaveri-based APUs are 95 W parts (ironically, the thermal ceiling AMD appears least concerned with).

A10-7850K sports two Steamroller modules and 512 shaders. The processor’s base clock rate is 3.7 GHz, though it can reach up to 4 GHz in lightly threaded apps. Meanwhile, the R7 graphics engine operates at 720 MHz.

In fact, all three Kaveri models sport GPUs at 720 MHz. The biggest difference between A10-7850K and the other two SKUs is shader count. A10-7700K and A8-7600 both come with 384. The -7700 operates at a 3.4 GHz base clock that ramps up as high as 3.8 GHz under the right thermal conditions.

The A8-7600 is unique in that it offers a TDP that can be manually configured to 65 or 45 W. A higher thermal ceiling allows for a 3.3 GHz base clock and 3.8 GHz peak, while the 45 W setting keeps the APU cycling between 3.1 and 3.3 GHz.

Kaveri-based APUs drop into a new interface called Socket FM2+. We’ve already seen compatible motherboards employing AMD’s A88X, A78, A75, and A55 Fusion Controller Hubs; it’s really up to each board vendor to hit the right price points with Socket FM2+. You can use Socket FM2-based APUs on FM2+-equipped boards, but not vice versa. A block diagram of the Kaveri die also reveals a PCI Express 3.0 controller (presumably with 16 lanes of connectivity, given the motherboards we have in the lab so far), support for up to four display outputs, and the same XDMA engines found in AMD’s Hawaii GPU for CrossFire (in this case, enabling Dual Graphics functionality). We’ll go into multi-GPU rendering in greater depth later in today’s story.

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Top Comments
  • 12 Hide
    vertexx , January 16, 2014 5:30 AM
    While the gaming enthusiast may not have much here to get excited about, I think the real story here is the A8-7600. Especially at 45W, the numbers are quite impressive for this part.

    Of course, the other part of this story will be the adoption of HSA and Mantle. In this regard, I think AMD is playing its cards right. If you want to provide incentive for game developers to invest in developing for Mantle, that economic incentive is not going to come from providing a high-end part that tries to compete with high-end discrete GPUs. That economic incentive, and I believe it's huge, is in lowering the cost of entry to play your game.

    With the A8-7600, I believe AMD is providing a tremendous market opportunity and incentive if, with the combination of Kaveri plus embedded technologies (Mantle & True Audio), you can provide a playable gaming environment for the mass market. Admittedly, it may not be a "playable gaming environment" from an enthusiast standpoint, but as an entry point, it is quite good enough. It will be important for AMD to show that the release of Mantle for BF4 impacts performance for the Kaveri APUs in particular. More specifically, they will need to show that Mantle makes BF4 playable on a 7600. If they are successful in that regard, then I think they may really have something exciting here.

    I'm hoping AMD is successful in this, because it's obvious that the desktop CPU performance race has reached a point of diminishing returns. Kudus for AMD for potentially changing the game in the industry.

    All that said, they screwed up the pricing for the high-end. It needs to be $30 cheaper, and what is even the point of the 7700K? The 7850K at ~$145 and the 7600 where it is would have made much more sense if they want to incent adoption of this technology. The other point is they need to get motherboard manufacturers on-board with bringing more ITX FM2+ motherboards to market at different price points.
  • 11 Hide
    Someone Somewhere , January 16, 2014 4:23 AM
    Quote:
    A10-7850k is slower than A10-6800K ?? WTF.


    I got the opposite impression. Which graph are you looking at?
Other Comments
  • 0 Hide
    vipervoid1 , January 16, 2014 3:54 AM
    Somethings with Diagram u provided at page 9 ~ Core i5 4760k @@Please fix that ~
  • 1 Hide
    Someone Somewhere , January 16, 2014 4:10 AM
    Yeah, almost all the diagrams refer to the 4760K.

    Given that AM3+ looks like it's done, it would have been nice to see a 6-core chip. Still, one of these may end up in my next laptop.
  • 1 Hide
    cangelini , January 16, 2014 4:21 AM
    Will get the charts fixed shortly--thanks for the catch!
  • 11 Hide
    Someone Somewhere , January 16, 2014 4:23 AM
    Quote:
    A10-7850k is slower than A10-6800K ?? WTF.


    I got the opposite impression. Which graph are you looking at?
  • 8 Hide
    Jaroslav Jandek , January 16, 2014 4:24 AM
    Thank you for the article (especially the power consumption measurements), Chris. It is definitely an improvement over Richland but kind of boring (disappointingly expectable).

    I really like where AMD is going (HSA, GCN and TrueAudio).Too bad the manufacturing process of GlobalFoundries just can't match Intel's.

    Also, it would be interesting to see the new Bay Trail Pentium or Celeron CPUs (whichever is closer in performance) in the Efficiency graphs.
  • -1 Hide
    Someone Somewhere , January 16, 2014 4:25 AM
    I'm fairly sure that this is on TSMC's 28nm node. GlobalFoundries can't do that yet; this is on the same process used for AMD GPUs currently.
  • 0 Hide
    Jaroslav Jandek , January 16, 2014 4:45 AM
    Quote:
    I'm fairly sure that this is on TSMC's 28nm node. GlobalFoundries can't do that yet; this is on the same process used for AMD GPUs currently.

    28nm SHP from GlobalFoundries. AMD bought over $1 billion worth of wafers from them in december...

    I guess you have been reading the articles from a year ago about AMD still using TSMC despite promises of GlobalFoundries' new 28nm SHP process.
  • 9 Hide
    jacobian , January 16, 2014 5:12 AM
    I don't really believe into the whole HSA smoke-screen. By the time HSA-enabled apps take off, you will be ready to upgrade from your CPU again. The one terrible truth that stands out right now is that at current prices, the flagship Kaveri A10 doesn't make any sense whatsoever. Kaveri A8? Maybe. Richland A10-6790K? Perhaps. But the Kaveri A10 at $180 is a just a joke, specially after all that hype.
  • 3 Hide
    Someone Somewhere , January 16, 2014 5:16 AM
    CPUs are usually released at ridiculous prices, and come down over a month or two.
  • 12 Hide
    vertexx , January 16, 2014 5:30 AM
    While the gaming enthusiast may not have much here to get excited about, I think the real story here is the A8-7600. Especially at 45W, the numbers are quite impressive for this part.

    Of course, the other part of this story will be the adoption of HSA and Mantle. In this regard, I think AMD is playing its cards right. If you want to provide incentive for game developers to invest in developing for Mantle, that economic incentive is not going to come from providing a high-end part that tries to compete with high-end discrete GPUs. That economic incentive, and I believe it's huge, is in lowering the cost of entry to play your game.

    With the A8-7600, I believe AMD is providing a tremendous market opportunity and incentive if, with the combination of Kaveri plus embedded technologies (Mantle & True Audio), you can provide a playable gaming environment for the mass market. Admittedly, it may not be a "playable gaming environment" from an enthusiast standpoint, but as an entry point, it is quite good enough. It will be important for AMD to show that the release of Mantle for BF4 impacts performance for the Kaveri APUs in particular. More specifically, they will need to show that Mantle makes BF4 playable on a 7600. If they are successful in that regard, then I think they may really have something exciting here.

    I'm hoping AMD is successful in this, because it's obvious that the desktop CPU performance race has reached a point of diminishing returns. Kudus for AMD for potentially changing the game in the industry.

    All that said, they screwed up the pricing for the high-end. It needs to be $30 cheaper, and what is even the point of the 7700K? The 7850K at ~$145 and the 7600 where it is would have made much more sense if they want to incent adoption of this technology. The other point is they need to get motherboard manufacturers on-board with bringing more ITX FM2+ motherboards to market at different price points.
  • 1 Hide
    Au_equus , January 16, 2014 5:40 AM
    There appears to a typo or at least a contradiction on the table (first page), which lists the A10-7700K with 512 shaders. The paragraph below then says it has 384 shaders.
  • 3 Hide
    Nossy , January 16, 2014 5:40 AM
    Basically at this point it is not worth the premium $50-60USD or so over Richland and Trinity. At $180, you can get an i5 3570k at some places like Microcenter. Another disappointing release from AMD.
  • 0 Hide
    The_Trutherizer , January 16, 2014 5:51 AM
    I'm extremely excited to see the results from more HSA compliant apps myself. Some of the benchmarks I have seen are beastly.I'm really starting to think that the APU is a superior approach. With x86 performance past a certain point CPUs with traditional cores will be relegated to specialised servers in the eyes of consumers. I mean how quickly do you want to open an excel spreadsheet or encode or decode music and video? 0.5s or 0.3s?
  • 8 Hide
    nezzymighty , January 16, 2014 5:52 AM
    Quote:
    With the A8-7600, I believe AMD is providing a tremendous market opportunity and incentive if, with the combination of Kaveri plus embedded technologies (Mantle & True Audio), you can provide a playable gaming environment for the mass market. .... they may really have something exciting here.
    @ vertexx ... finally a non troll or die hard Intel/AMD fan that is making sensible points...I used to be a gamer and spent thousands, being a die hard fan of one today's chip makers. Now, as a mainstream user that has to use their money towards real life applications (rather than FPS) like a house, family, children, eating, paying bills, etc... I tend now to look for a solution to spend the disposable income on a solution that is cheap but encompasses the ability to do a little of everything...Well done AMD... please keep the innovation coming, and competition alive too keep prices down for all to enjoy...
  • 1 Hide
    rolli59 , January 16, 2014 5:54 AM
    Well if this is the future from AMD they are going to leave Intel alone in the high end gaming space.
  • -2 Hide
    styrkes , January 16, 2014 5:55 AM
    This measly increase in performance is just shoddy. Wonder what amazing story and hype AMD will put out for their next APU. I'm pretty much done with all this new advanced technology that's supposed to bring increased efficiency, performance, etc. etc. They've been doing this ever since they released their first APU. The next time AMD releases their next APU, I'll just jump straight into the benchmarks, see if that's any good.
  • -8 Hide
    styrkes , January 16, 2014 5:56 AM
    This measly increase in performance is just shoddy. Wonder what amazing story and hype AMD will put out for their next APU. I'm pretty much done with all this new advanced technology that's supposed to bring increased efficiency, performance, etc. etc. They've been doing this ever since they released their first APU. The next time AMD releases their next APU, I'll just jump straight into the benchmarks, see if that's any good.
  • 2 Hide
    Trachu , January 16, 2014 6:02 AM
    A8-7600 paired with R9-240 looks like a good deal. I belive this is a great Chance for AMD here if it sorts Crossfire performance things right Here lays the whole reason to buy APU instead of plain CPU.Why you have not commented about it in your final words when you thought about the alternatives?
  • 6 Hide
    logainofhades , January 16, 2014 6:32 AM
    Quote:
    Basically at this point it is not worth the premium $50-60USD or so over Richland and Trinity. At $180, you can get an i5 3570k at some places like Microcenter. Another disappointing release from AMD.


    Yesterday there was an HD7770 so low that you could get that and an FX 6300 for like $5 more than what newegg is asking for the 7850k. You can get an HD 7750 in that general price range with an FX 6300 now. In desktop, APU's still hold no appeal to me at all. Mobile, they have promise for sure.
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