New Build question...

TheGolfingPablo

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Hey guys, I'm trying to spec out a new PC build and I'm stuck in relation to my CPU choice. I will most be gaming - likely WOW BFA primarily and creating the odd YouTube video via Adobe Premiere or Sony Vegas. I'd like to upload in 4k. I'll probably upload a 20min vid once a week as a safe benchmark - so won't be a heavy duty editor/content creator.

I would like to learn more as I go however, and add more additional features into my videos as my editing skill improves. This will undoubtably add time to the renders etc.

I plan on gaming on max settings at 1440p on my Acer x34 Predator monitor, using a GTX1070ti.

I guess I'm asking do I go with Ryzen? OR do I go for the 8700k. I'm edging towards the latter due to WOW being pretty CPU intensive. I've never used AMD before and my last build was a Haswell 4670k.

Any help would be much appreciated.

Thanks.
 
Solution
Yep, there's no significant difference between AMD and Intel at your kind of resolution, the GPU is going to be the main holdup.
The new parts are rumoured to be released in July so holding off is a wise move, Padawan. ;)
Reviews have shown that the R7 2700X responds very poorly to overclocking, its out-of-the-box Boost and XFR frequencies pretty much max it out and the bundled cooler can cope pretty well, so you may not need the H150i...Probably.
Memory isn't the big issue it once was, but with so many to choose from I'm loth to suggest one or another beyond either Giel Evo X DDR3000 ( currently in my rig ) or G.Skill FlareX DDR4 3200. Note, ALL the memory will work, but some will refuse to run beyond their JDEC rated speed although...

finitekosmos

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To be honest I think the Ryzen 2600x/2700x would be a better choice for a few reasons...

1. The Ryzen parts have more cores, while they do not quite match Intel's IPC (instructions Per Clock) they are so close to it right now that the difference is pretty negligible in most cases and the Ryzen has more cores.

2. Those extra cores will come in very, very handy for rendering/encoding video. There is no getting away from it having the extra Ryzen cores at your disposal will accelerate this type of work.

3. The platform price for Ryzen is very hard to beat when you look at it from a performance per $ standpoint.

But in all honestly its up to you to determine which of these applications (games/productivity) that you will likely get most benefit from either platform. I'd go with Ryzen personally and I am not a fanboy, in fact I'm using an Intel i9 7920X based system. Right now both are a substantial upgrade and you cant go wrong.
 
Both Vegas and Adobe Premier like Intel parts and, as you say WoW is very hard on the CPU, so, for those reasons I'd go for the i7 option.
Be aware, the differences are small, Ryzen won't turn your games into a slideshow while an i7 won't halve your editing/rendering times!


A few points:

With such a massive screen resolution ( 3440x1400 ) you won't see any perceptible difference between either CPU and, frankly a GTX1070Ti is likely to struggle without lowering some settings to speed things up.

I'll suggest you check the overall system cost and balance to see if you can't push the GPU specs further along the food chain, at such a high resolution, the higher the better, especially if you intend to fully exploit the 100Hz potential of the display.

Most here will cringe at this but you can run a 'K' CPU off a 'B' or even 'H' series motherboard if you don't EVER intend to overclock. The 'K' chips have higher base clocks while Intel CPUs aren't as badly effected by lower memory speeds than AMD parts; DDR4 2666 can save some cash at a minimal performance loos against DDR4 3000 for example.


 

TheGolfingPablo

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Ok so I have some further progress on my build. Since I posted I researched a little on the CPUs and have now ordered the Ryzen 2700X along with the Gigabyte Auros Gaming 7 motherboard (for the RGB aspect of my RGB build).

My reasoning was that I will be gaming at 1440 where there is little difference in FPS between the CPUs compared to 1080p gaming, plus the cheaper price point of AMD along with the streaming and rendering capability just swayed me further in that direction.

I take your point on the GPU however. My old build had a 980ti and it was struggling to keep up with newer titles. I was swayed between getting the GTX1070ti or a GTX1080 (there is only around £50 between the EVGA FTW editions of both cards on amazon).
However, given that Nvidia are apparently going to release their newest GPUs (hashtag) soon! Then I'm going to wait it out for their release.

I think that with the CPU, motherboard, case and Corsair H150i cooler on their way for my new build, that waiting for my GPU purchase for a month or 2 is a wise choice.

I still have my old peripherals along with my Corsair AX860 PSU, so all I really need now is to buy the RAM now....which I believe is kinda tricky for Ryzen??

Thanks for the comments so far!
 
Yep, there's no significant difference between AMD and Intel at your kind of resolution, the GPU is going to be the main holdup.
The new parts are rumoured to be released in July so holding off is a wise move, Padawan. ;)
Reviews have shown that the R7 2700X responds very poorly to overclocking, its out-of-the-box Boost and XFR frequencies pretty much max it out and the bundled cooler can cope pretty well, so you may not need the H150i...Probably.
Memory isn't the big issue it once was, but with so many to choose from I'm loth to suggest one or another beyond either Giel Evo X DDR3000 ( currently in my rig ) or G.Skill FlareX DDR4 3200. Note, ALL the memory will work, but some will refuse to run beyond their JDEC rated speed although this is becoming uncommon. If you're concerned, check the returns policy of your supplier before placing an order or even purchase from a bricks and mortar store so you can return it more easily.
 
Solution

TheGolfingPablo

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Cheers for the reply. I'm grabbing the h150i mainly for aesthetics so it's all good.
As for the ram I'm probably gonna go with the trident Z rgb 3200 kit. Again, for aesthetics.

Let's hope these new gpus release before battle for azeroth! For the horde! Haha.
 

EpIckFa1LJoN

Admirable
Not true. I have an x34 and an 8700k and a 1080 Ti. Especially if you are playing at 100/120Hz on the original X34 (what I have) or the New X34p (120Hz OC, 100Hz native) And especially for WoW, which favors higher clock speeds and definitely Intel.

I can guarantee you, you will not be able to max out settings with anything less. Also, the 8700k is significantly faster than the 2600x for gaming and productivity. And the 2700x is still slower while being slightly more expensive for the CPU itself.

Also if you're going to be rendering in 4k on the CPU, you're going to want absolutely as much CPU power as you can get, and that is definitely the 8700k.

As far as the GPU, the 1080 Ti handles most games on Ultra 3440x1440 100Hz. There are a handful that will not hold 90-100fps with a 1080 Ti. Far Cry 5 for example, my avg fps there is about 80-85. BF1 avg fps is 110. CoD WWII, avg fps is legit 97-100. With new games coming out it's going to be even harder for the 1080 Ti. A 1070 Ti isn't going to come even close.

If all you are playing is WoW the 1070 Ti MAY be able to handle it, but with BfA coming out, and raising the graphics another notch, it is more on par with current AAA titles, meaning it may follow the same guidelines as others. meaning the 1070 Ti MAY handle it maxed out or you may have to play at a slightly lower settings. (I personally play at Preset 7 but that is mostly because of the CPU optimization) With the same hardware I have and the same monitor, you can play Preset 7 and keep a steady 100fps for the most part, outside of raids preset 10, you're looking at around 60-90 in Legion zones, especially if heavily populated, and in raids, settings don't count for as much and there you need raw CPU power to prevent dropping below 50 fps.

Check my build in the Sig, I know EXACTLY what it takes to run the beast that is the X34.


Side note: the H150i is trash. If you really really want the aesthetics get the h115i. It performs better however it is also pretty bad. The H115i (original) is better than both and looks plenty fine. I can link pictures of my build if you want.
 

TheGolfingPablo

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Cheers for the reply. I have considered all the options and still giving my money to Mr. AMD. My build won't be solely for gaming alone. I'll also be streaming and doing some photography and video editing.
As for wow, a playable fps is enough for me, rather than worrying too much about max settings. I.e I could turn off AA and get a massive fps boost for little to no (from what my eyes can tell) difference to graphics. Also dialling down shadows etc just a small amount can yield great fps results for little graphical input.
As for gpu, I'm defo waiting to the new models get released in a couple of months hopefully. I'll likely grab the new variant of the 1080, which should be more than enough for me.
 

EpIckFa1LJoN

Admirable


Actually, I play with AA off, that's still the FPS I get with an 8700k and 1080 Ti.
And at 7 the shadows are already scaled down quite a bit.

The fps difference between preset 7 and preset 1 is about 20fps, but the graphics quality is about 25% as good IMO.

But yeah it will be "playable"

But whats the point gaming on a $1200, and widely considered one of the best gaming monitors ever made, just to get "playable".

Of course you're welcome to do what you want, but IMO that's BS lol

Good luck to you though.

:D
 

TheGolfingPablo

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The new refresh of the 1080, be it the 1180 or the 2080, will be superior to the 1080ti without a doubt. So you're point only really exists in relation to the cpu; and the age old argument of Intel vs Amd. Like I say I won't be solely using it for gaming and I very much doubt with my finished set-up that the fps difference between the two cpus will be of any great significance, or anything I'll lose sleep over. The additional cores and threads of the 2700x are more important to me over negligible fps disparity.
 

EpIckFa1LJoN

Admirable
Actually for rendering the 2700x is very marginally better than the 8700k. Even less so with a good OC.

https://www.gamersnexus.net/guides/3310-adobe-premiere-benchmarks-rendering-8700k-gpu-vs-ryzen

At stock the 8700k takes 46 minutes to render a 16-minute video (4k 60fps), where the 2700x does it in 41.

Whereas for gaming, especially for WoW the 8700k will be about 20% faster for single and quad-core performance.

But like I said, it's your build. If that five minutes is that important to you I get it. I bought a $700 SSD to decrease my load times by 1-2 seconds for 0 fps gain.

Just want to make sure you are well informed of your decision.

:D
 

mossberg

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EpIckFa1LJoN

Admirable
I'm well aware of that.. and there are only a few situations where it matters. They are less than 3% difference on streaming at medium quality settings, and there are workarounds for it otherwise. The major downside for the 8700k is that the stream is unwatchable if it's not overclocked.

Streamer side fps is WAY higher with Intel.

You're sacrificing 8-10% of the frames one way or the other. AMD is about 10% faster viewer side streaming, whereas Intel is 8-10% faster streamer side and yes it has to be overclocked.

At that point it's personal preference.. I'm not a professional streamer, I don't need veiwer side to be as good as possible, I care more about my own experience, therefore I'm going to go with Intel. There's no definitive better CPU, it's all situational. If I was making 4k movies I would have AMD tech, I game and game particularly with mostly games that prefer Intel, so I have Intel.

And to be quite honest I just barely saw that he had any interest in streaming or I would have suggested that as well.

At that point you have to ask yourself how much is viewing quality important to you? I know people who have 40-50 followers so they choose Intel all day every day. I guess for big streamers where stream quality is super important obviously you should go with AMD.

Again, there is no one chip that is better than everything else in all situations.

For WoW in particular, the 8700k @5GHz will heavily outperform the 2700x, will only be 5-10 minutes slower rendering 20-minute 4k videos, and will handle streaming with almost no hit to performance, albeit slightly (10%) slower than AMD, on higher settings.
 

Rogue Leader

It's a trap!
Moderator
Every time someone posts a World of Warcraft thread this debate comes out, and every time it becomes more and more ridiculous.

Lets take streaming out of the picture. EpIckFa1LJoN I wish I could get you into a room with 2 blind cased 1080ti equipped PCs. One with an 8700k, and one with a 2700x, identical configuration, same high speed connection, same graphic settings, a 3440x1440 100hz screen and WoW running. No fps counter or other statistics. And you test play for an hour each. I would bet $1000 that you couldn't tell the difference between the two systems. Not in gameplay, graphically, nothing.
 

EpIckFa1LJoN

Admirable
Well I disagree, because I was able to tell the difference between my 8700k (4.3GHz) and 6700k (4.7GHz), which was also separated by a measly 400MHz.

But you're welcome to your opinion. When you are used to seeing things at 100Hz, seeing things at 70fps as opposed to 80fps is still noticeable. I was playing SCII literally yesterday on my laptop because I was out of town and I noticed when the FPS dipped to 53 (no counter).

The only way I wouldn't be able to tell a difference between these two CPU's is if the 2700x was OC'd and the 8700k wasn't.

But you can think whatever you want, some people can see the difference. I am one of them. I go by experience and as I mentioned I could tell the fps drop when I went from my 6700k to 8700k.
 

Rogue Leader

It's a trap!
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Yeah no you didn't. First off why would you downclock an 8700k? It runs at 4.7ghz turbo, and I'd assume you're talking about WoW which as you continually point out is single core based. Either way there is not a chance in the world you are seeing a 400mhz difference in cpu perceptibly on screen. In fact in any benchmark WoW has shown only a couple fps difference between the 6700k/7700k/8700k.

Fps differences can be perceived in controls in some games (especially first person shooters and measurable in milliseconds only amongst large swings in fps) but there is no way in the world you are noticing tiny fps dips especially well above the human "smoothness" threshold of 60 fps. An fps drop to 53 you would see which you used as an example, as would anyone.

But sure I will believe anecdotal evidence that you somehow have magical eyes that can see a couple fps difference between setups. We here would rather stick with facts than your "experience".
 

EpIckFa1LJoN

Admirable
1. Yes, in fact I did. I'm really not sure who you think you are to tell me what I can and can't perceive but whatever.

2. The 8700k Turbo's up to 4.7GHz on a single core, for 6 cores it only turbo's up to 4.3GHz I did not down-clock anything. WoW still utilizes 4 cores even though it does not do it well. The fact that you didn't know that explains a lot.

3. Yes I am talking about WoW, you are correct in your assumption that I would not be able to tell the difference in other games between an 8700k and 2700x, i'm not arguing that. For WoW in particular, yes I would. In fact, for almost all my games I could tell no difference between my 6700k and 8700k, even though there is roughly a 50% difference in RealBench scores between them. However, in WoW, and even SCII in particular, there is a very noticeable difference favoring the OC'd 6700k.

4. I most definitely did notice. Since WoW is single-core for the most part, that 400MHz actual turned out to be about a 10-15fps difference in heavy areas. In Max CPU usage areas the difference was a couple fps, but I don't think anyone would call 10-12 a "couple" frames difference. For WoW I would say there is a 1-2fps (avg) difference per 100MHz for Single core performance.

5. Almost anyone who has played at 100/120/144Hz can definitely tell you in most cases you can tell an fps drop below a certain point. I will cede the difference between 50-60fps is perceptively far greater than 90-100, I personally don't notice a drop from 100 until about 85 fps. As far as the smoothness threshold, that is unproven science and is far more likely to differ from person to person rather than a default value for every human on earth. So stating that any one person can only perceive up to 60fps, and past that there is no discernible difference is blatantly wrong.

6. The 6700k 4-core turbo speed is 4.2GHz, the 7700k 4-core boost is between 4.2-4.4GHz (I can't quite remember I know the other two from experience) and the 8700k 6 core boost is 4.3GHz. Being within 100MHz they are only going to show a few fps difference, you are correct. But a 400MHz difference will be far more noticeable. As would the 700MHz difference between an 8700k @5.0GHz and a 2700x @4.3GHz, which seem to be where most benchmarks put them at.

7. Again, some people's eyes (rather their brains) are capable of processing information (such as sensory information) faster than others, which would allow people to perceive small changes in fps. There is nothing anecdotal about that. It's not my fault you don't believe me. Some people can see an fps difference of 10fps even from 90-100fps. I most certainly could tell the difference between mid 80's where I was with my 6700k to the low 70's with my 8700k on WoW. In fact, it is an adjustment for me going from 100Hz to 60Hz (where some of my games are capped in the code and unlocking it brings up glitches) It takes me about an hour to get used to Skyrim (60Hz) coming from playing at 100Hz. And in fact, Skyrim looks clunky even at 60Hz until my eyes get used to it, then it looks fine after that. So unless I am some kind of sensory wizard, I know other people have and will experience this as well.

8. This conversation has gone far enough off topic, and I will not be taking part of this nonsensical, pointless, argument any longer.

The fact is, there IS a difference on fps based on clock speeds in WoW in particular. If he were playing at 60Hz either CPU would make no difference as both are capable of being 60fps+ 95% of the time. At 100Hz there is a difference. That's based on the fact I have about 2 months of playtime each on both a 6700k and 8700k at 3440x1440 100Hz, same settings, various situations, using RTSS the entire time.

You can choose to believe it or not that's up to you. Until you see for yourself you won't believe it. That's fine. But I will no longer be taking part of this off-topic bickering here any more.

I'm unfollowing the post just so I won't be tempted to argue any further.
 

Rogue Leader

It's a trap!
Moderator
So what I'm reading is "I'm right you're wrong so I'm gonna take my ball and go home"

I'd spend the time picking apart your argument and the numerous fallacies (especially comparing 2 different brands of processor on Mhz, come on thats a rookie mistake), however since you won't be returning I won't waste the time.
 

Rogue Leader

It's a trap!
Moderator


Let me apologize for the site and our behavior then, you should never regret asking a question here. We do try and keep the information correct and on track, but occasionally people whom have very strong opinions (correct or otherwise) feel the need to overly exude them in threads. Its really a no win situation, but I hope this experience hasn't turned you off from asking questions in the future.
 

TheGolfingPablo

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No need to apologise bud. Everyone has an opinion. Just glad I stuck with my gut instinct on choosing the 2700x. First time choosing an Amd cpu over intel. But decided to give my hard earned cash to the underdog this time.

Love the site btw. It's fantastic. Keep doing what you're doing.
 

logainofhades

Titan
Moderator



Would love to hear about your experience with your new setup, once you get it up and running. :D