ATi have just been caught cheating.

[GeneticWeapon]

The X800 is using a filtering cheat to achieve better performance in games & benchmarks. Pretty much what nVidia has been doing the past year. You need to read <A HREF="http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12486&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0" target="_new">this</A> beyond3d thread for the details...it's gotten pretty intense. Our own Lars from THG is giving his two cents in the thread also.

<A HREF="http://rmitz.org/AYB3.swf" target="_new">All your base are belong to us.</A>
<A HREF="http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k3=2216718" target="_new"><b>3DMark03</b></A>

 

[Terracide]

Now where are all the zealot's using terms like "nVidiot's" now?

This will be funny to watch
*finds out coke and pocorn and prepares for loads of laughter*

Terracide - "The one with the last laugh..."



Don't pretend - BE!

 

[flamethrower205]

You're just gonna hear the crickets chirp cause most of the people here would suck Ati's cock blindly. Meh, I guess I'll join ya tho...where you keeping the chairs, I also got some beer if u get bored with that coke...

SEX is like math. Add the bed, subtract the clothes, divide the legs, and hope you dont multiply

 

[Terracide]

Beer sounds good too
/cheers
Take a seat, and let the flaming begin *L*

*leans back and awaits the "battle"*

Terracide - Some peeps gotta feel backstabbed? *OUCH* *L*

Don't pretend - BE!

 

[GeneticWeapon]

I use the term "nVidiot" all the time...but I'm also the one crying "foul" here. Wrong is wrong, and this is extremely disheartening....

<A HREF="http://rmitz.org/AYB3.swf" target="_new">All your base are belong to us.</A>
<A HREF="http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k3=2216718" target="_new"><b>3DMark03</b></A>

 

[mrface]

exactly people should be punished what has happened, i happen to like ATi but i think what they did was wrong, plain and simple.

"This Steel ain't stainless, Your bloodstains are all over this steel."
<A HREF="http://www.cameronwilliamson.com" target="_new">-={Messianic Maniac.}=-</A>
<font color=green>{FLM}</font color=green>

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

Yep not looking good.

At first I thought. like I told you, it was like <A HREF="http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/radeon/r9800pro-ue.html" target="_new">the Trilinear issue from earlier UT2K3 results</A>, which was a game issue that could be overriden unlike the NV3X brilinear (which can now be disabled on the NV40 series). But nope this is more widespread (surprised to see it in SS:SE, not so surprised to see it in UT2K4) and definitely not meeting the usual quality levels.

Funny how someone mentioned Quack, when there's more issues out there like FartCry. Sure it makes the rounds, but really few people seem to take notice, which is why floptimizations continue. Sad to see that floptimizeing will become the accepted norm. I'm still waiting to see what the reponse to all this is, but it better be good, because it sure doesn't look good.

In the end it simply tarnishes the hollier than thou attitude, and means that any complaints about floptimizations won't hold the weight the once did.

I wish I could follow it more, but hopefully by late tonight /tomorrow morning there'll be more info.

<b>EDIT</b>:
<i><font color=blue>I use the term "nVidiot" all the time...but I'm also the one crying "foul" here. Wrong is wrong, and this is extremely disheartening....</i></font color=blue>

Ditto on BOTH counts. nVidiots are still dumba$$es, and so are FanATIcs, but that doesn't make THIS right.


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by TheGreatGrapeApe on 05/16/04 06:05 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

i happen to like ATi but i think what they did was wrong, plain and simple.

Exactly, and one of the reasons I liked them was that they didn't use floptimizations. Now they're not better and really that sucks for everyone. So now ATI, nVidia, SiS and XGI all have their hands dirty. Maybe VIA's the answer? NAH, it's not THAT bad!


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK

 

[mrface]

Maybe VIA's the answer? NAH, it's not THAT bad!

LMAO

"This Steel ain't stainless, Your bloodstains are all over this steel."
<A HREF="http://www.cameronwilliamson.com" target="_new">-={Messianic Maniac.}=-</A>
<font color=green>{FLM}</font color=green>

 

[coylter]

I want IQ comparison....if there is no difference i dont realy care......

Athlon 2700xp+ (oc: 3200xp+ with 200fsb) , Radeon 9800pro (oc: 410/360) , 512mb pc3200 (5-3-3-2), Asus A7N8X-X

 

[GeneticWeapon]

I want IQ comparison....if there is no difference i dont realy care.

From what is being said, there are noticable differences during gameplay...but hi definition stillshots do not shed any light on the truth.
Only those with X800 cards can participate in the test's.

<A HREF="http://rmitz.org/AYB3.swf" target="_new">All your base are belong to us.</A>
<A HREF="http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k3=2216718" target="_new"><b>3DMark03</b></A>

 

[coylter]

New gen stink...i'll keep my card until the gen after this one....

Athlon 2700xp+ (oc: 3200xp+ with 200fsb) , Radeon 9800pro (oc: 410/360) , 512mb pc3200 (5-3-3-2), Asus A7N8X-X

 

[dhlucke]

ARG!

<font color=red>_______________________________________________</font color=red>
Nov. 6, 1971: "I gave back, I can't remember, six, seven, eight, nine medals"

- John Kerry, a Presidential Candidate

 

[GeneticWeapon]

These "optimisations" have been implemented on the 9600 series since Cat 3.4's..<A HREF="http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12486&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=100" target="_new">click</A>
That micron guy is obviously a n00b though...

<A HREF="http://rmitz.org/AYB3.swf" target="_new">All your base are belong to us.</A>
<A HREF="http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k3=2216718" target="_new"><b>3DMark03</b></A>

 

[coylter]

So its just a small thing?

Athlon 2700xp+ (oc: 3200xp+ with 200fsb) , Radeon 9800pro (oc: 410/360) , 512mb pc3200 (5-3-3-2), Asus A7N8X-X

 

[GeneticWeapon]

So its just a small thing?

If you call asking for Trilinear, and getting Brilinear a small thing...then sure..I guess. I call it lieing to the consumer.


<A HREF="http://rmitz.org/AYB3.swf" target="_new">All your base are belong to us.</A>
<A HREF="http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k3=2216718" target="_new"><b>3DMark03</b></A>

 

[agcheavin]

At the end of the day, Nvdiots will only buy Nvidia cards, whilst the more mature and discerning ATI supporter, will buy whatever brand of card that gives us the most bang for the buck...Nvidia owners remind me of the people who bought Beta video recorders so long ago, wandering aimlessly through the video store aisle of life looking for that one movie that wasn't on VHS so that they could hold it aloft to prove beta was the best, so so sad...my heart goes out to them. So ATI cheated, hmm, to have a manufacturer make unsupported claims against anything that they make is certainly unusual ( eg: the Pinto is a great car, fantastic for winter motoring with a built in heater in the back !). ATI do it once or twice and the Nvdiots cry foul, Nvidia does it and it's called driver optimisations. Who gives a toss at the end of the day, after all, thats why we have THG and the like, thats why we have forumns so that the informed buyer ( read ATI fan) can pick and choose what is available and to find the BS in there claims. Me, I'll buy whatever performs the best, I don't care, but those poor lost souls with there leaf blowers and dust busters trying to show the world that a 120 decibal fan is proof of power. I still remiember when the leaf blower came out, 8 pipelines with 6 of them dedicated to fan noise.

sigh.

he he, now flame on....


Gary

....................
<font color=red>AMD 2700 XP<font color=red>
<font color=red>Gecube 9800 pro Extreme<font color=red>
<font color=blue>ASUS A7N8X deluxe<font color=blue>
<font color=blue>1024 meg Dual Channel DDR 3200<font color=blue>
....................

 

[coylter]

All those cheating / optimisation thing start getting on my nerve. My next videocard is gonna be home made......

1 frame per years on any game..... BUT PERFECT IMAGE QUALITY.

Athlon 2700xp+ (oc: 3200xp+ with 200fsb) , Radeon 9800pro (oc: 410/360) , 512mb pc3200 (5-3-3-2), Asus A7N8X-X

 

[dhlucke]

Get some crayons and construction paper. Render everything by hand.

<font color=red>_______________________________________________</font color=red>
Nov. 6, 1971: "I gave back, I can't remember, six, seven, eight, nine medals"

- John Kerry, a Presidential Candidate

 

[Crashman]

That's it, ATI's getting punished! I won't be buying any ATI products for at least 6 months!

eh, wtf, I got my AIW 9600 Pro free, I haven't actually bought any new video cards for...3 years or so.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>

 

[agcheavin]

And then they'd argue who makes the best crayons....

....................
<font color=red>AMD 2700 XP<font color=red>
<font color=red>Gecube 9800 pro Extreme<font color=red>
<font color=blue>ASUS A7N8X deluxe<font color=blue>
<font color=blue>1024 meg Dual Channel DDR 3200<font color=blue>
....................

 

[mrface]

lol i love you crash, you always get free sh|t.

i have been thru three different versions of the 9800p (BBA 9800p. Sapphire 9800pro, and currently BBA 9800pAIW)

I have no complaints, now about the topic at hand i do have complaints. why would you need to cheat when you are already ruling the market(with quality wise at least, i dont know if the are winning the monetary war.)?

"This Steel ain't stainless, Your bloodstains are all over this steel."
<A HREF="http://www.cameronwilliamson.com" target="_new">-={Messianic Maniac.}=-</A>
<font color=green>{FLM}</font color=green>

 

[dhlucke]

Is it a matter of whether they think they're cheating?

*sigh*

<font color=red>_____________________________________________</font color=red>
Nov. 6, 1971: "I gave back, I can't remember, six, seven, eight, nine medals"

- John Kerry, a Presidential Candidate
<font color=blue>{FDA}

 

[mrface]

they knew what they were doing,

theres no way you can honestly say they didnt.

"This Steel ain't stainless, Your bloodstains are all over this steel."
<A HREF="http://www.cameronwilliamson.com" target="_new">-={Messianic Maniac.}=-</A>
<font color=green>{FLM}</font color=green>

 

[dhlucke]

I deny everything.

<font color=red>_____________________________________________</font color=red>
Nov. 6, 1971: "I gave back, I can't remember, six, seven, eight, nine medals"

- John Kerry, a Presidential Candidate
<font color=blue>{FDA}