Microsoft: EU Deal Will Require 'Significant Change'

"This is an important day and a major step forward, and we look forward to building a new foundation for the future in Europe."

Europe is just funny today! Big ups to EU!!

hi, i'm cheepstuff and that statement was 'my' idea...

"the European Commission reserves the right to make adjustments to the browser choice screen. Furthermore, if Microsoft breaks any of its commitments, the European Commission could impose a fine of up to 10 percent of Microsoft's total annual turnover without having to prove any violation of EU antitrust rules."

This statement right here strengthens my belief that the EU is one of the most confining, dictatorial, and evil governing bodies I've ever seen.

This is one of the rare days I am glad to be an American. err wait I have the FTC....

DAMNIT!

Out of curiousity, does Apple's OS have to jump through these hoops too?

I don't think so.

EU is setting up a scary precedent with their actions here.

This is over 10 years late. A bit before MS killed off Netscape would have been a good time for this. Now its just pointless bit of control the EU is imposing on MS. I guess we have MS to thank for the free browsers since back in the early 90's you had to pay for a browser. I am hoping 10 years from now IE has lost most of its market share at the hands of open source.

The article doesn't say when will this come into effect... if it's after Christmas, many millions will already have bought Windows 7 (many already have anyway) without the browser choice screen, like I have. MS will probably delay it as much as they legally can I guess.

I find this whole thing curious, because it reflects the lack of any speed in justice being made. Back in 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004... Internet Explorer 6 had an enormous market share and what did the EU do ? Nothing.

We were almost stuck with an insecure and at a certain point many years old browser, which Microsoft didn't care to update technologically, and besides, it didn't comply with a lot of standards.

In recent years, first with Firefox 2 and now 3 and 3.5, and the word spreading, IE, even with Microsoft having woken up and implementing new features, has lost and is losing market share every day to Firefox.

And now that the path towards the loss of the monopoly of IE looks like it's already on auto-pilot, the EU comes along pretending to be doing something necessary. What a lack of timing!

And whatever happend to the Media Player problems ? I remember Windows XP was also released in an N version, but only 1500 copies have been sold to OEMS and none to the consumers directly (who in their right mind would buy the thing ?); the price being the same and it being sold alongside, and with Windows Vista the same; there are also N version of 7 available, but the Eu alows MS to sell them alonside the normal versions, for the same price. Let's see, does this make any sense at all ? If I can spare an extra download, I will. This is just classic proforma burocracy.

And the Media PLayer thaty comes with Windows 7 is actually quite good, with a nice interface and buil-in codecs. But wat, it's too late, the EU can't fine them anymore, because they allow the N versions.

Well I do hope that Apple has to go through the same thing at some point I mean come on it is only fair if one has to do it then everyone should have to. Please do not give me oh but Apple only has a small portion of the PC market & Microsoft has a lot more speech this has nothing to do with the size of their market share but rather a fair & balanced out come for every one that is involved. In the next year I hope to see the playing field the same for everyone involved whether they have 98% or just 2% of the market.

Also from what I just read it sounds like the EU can pretty much decide at anytime that MS has not held up their end of the deal & make them pay heavy fines if they chose to

"Furthermore, if Microsoft breaks any of its commitments, the European Commission could impose a fine of up to 10 percent of Microsoft
's total annual turnover without having to prove any violation of EU antitrust rules."

That part kinda seems a bit one side leaning in favor of the EU of coarse.

these are just my thoughts on this

I realize that open source is nice and all, but don't the people who create the software we use deserve to earn money for their work?

Instead of paying for a browser now, we have advertisement up the wazoo. I can live with it, it also drives an advertisement economy.

The only reason I can see them picking on MS in this particular fashion is they are trying to kill off MS enough to bring in more competition.

If not for their near monopoply, MS providing a browser is standard practice for an OS. They should have the write to bundle it in with their OS like all others do. It's not like they prevent you from using others (they did some of that many years ago, however). Apple controls everything put on their OS's, why can't MS just provide one option with a normal install?

Not really. Microsoft is treated differently because it's a monopoly. Monopolies, as everybody knows, can cause harm to an industry and therefore are watched closely by regulators. That's how it works (or is supposed to work). Apple would probably be in a similar position if they had 90% of the OS market and used that advantage to compete unfairly in other areas. If that was the case you can be sure that "apple software only on apple hardware" nonsense would end.

Still think Microsoft shoulda just not put any internet browser in the EU edition. See how long they last without an easy way to get a browser or download updates.

That's kind of funny.

If you think about it, MS is being forced to sell another product without being paid for it. How is that fair?

Significant changes?

Golly, and here I thought the biggest software company in the world had enough developers to make as many "changes" to Windows as you could ever want to make...

EU - China... What's the difference? Mind-control freaks.

If no browser in the OS, there's a very simple solution: give people Firefox CD's or IE CD's for free when they buy the computer or when they visit an IT store, or buy a pc magazine with bundled CD. AOL did this for years.

Alternative:

Start > Run > ftp ftp.firefox.com
GET firefox.exe
QUIT

firefox.exe is now on your desktop.

(note: there's no ftp server on firefox.com. I'm saying it can be implemented if needed and with a geo-targeted dns and a series of servers it's really no trouble serving lots of users)

Yeah. The problem is Apple is not a monopoly, Microsoft is. Rules change when one is a monopoly.

Wikipedia is a wonderful thing, look for "monopoly" there and get a clue.

Here's the really messed up part: they actually tried that, and the EU wouldn't let them. They forced them to do the browser ballot anyway.
First off, MS is not a true monopoly. This modern re-interpretation of what a monopoly is cracks me up. Not a big fan of history, are you? You can go and buy a non-MS computer and use zero MS hardware or software. My god, MS really has the world by the balls! Not.

Second, your Apple example made me laugh. So, if you have a smaller market share, you're allowed to get away with all sorts of bad behavior? But if you have a big market share, there's an enforced-by-law double standard? Hilarious.

Exactly how many average computers users will be happy to find they can't just connect to the internet right after starting up their comp? and how many will actually know HOW to use ftp to download a browser, especially a command line ftp program? You are seriously overestimating the computer literacy of the average user. Plus what about all the service calls MS is gonna get when Firefox, Opera or Chrome crashes?

People are dumb, they see it installed they will assume it is made my MS or by Dell (or Acer, Gateway, etc).

So wait MS can't have their software they wrote on the OS they made cause its a monopolistic practice, but Apple is within their right to install their software on hardware they call theirs which it actually isn't, or not install it on "your" hardware?

This is so true. I've heard so many times from relatives, friends, customers, "Nice computer, what brand is it? [look at monitor] Oh, Samsung, nice!" I'm sure that many of you who build your own computers have heard the same.

I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure FTP in Windows is handled by IE. Without IE installed, that won't work.

That's really funny that you said that, it just happened yesterday.

I use Opera and as much as I like it I seriously think this is shady for them to have pushed forward. I'm not all for monopolies and what not but I see this as non-sense and just someone trying to get there face in the paper *cough* Opera *cough*.

Summation of what the EU is telling the business world.

"If you are a dominating force in your market category and you want to do business with our countries, you must pay us off."

This is what Capone's Chicago empire would look like if it was made up of countries.

This is something the Europeans have to deal with and doesn't bother me in the slightest.

One, it's not like MSFT will be significantly financially affected by this; otherwise, they'd forgo the European market. Two, this is a typical bureaucratic non-solution to an over-wrought issue, i.e., I doubt that this selection option will have much affect on the European browser mix and certainly not the worldwide browser mix. Three, my guess is that in a few years, this kludge of an option will have gone the way of the dodo bird.

This Euro trash just shows why I left Europe... dictatorial socialist asshats!
If I were president of MS, I would pull all sales from Europe, and cancel all support for all European versions of the OS... we'd see how long Europe would go then without the major OS in all their businesses and critical systems.
F.. Europe!

I wish they would fine them for fucking up css and keeping web development in the stone age instead. Oh and for IE6. They should be fined heavily for IE6. And maybe beat a little. With a strap.
Maybe fine them for IE7 also. And a little bit for not supporting hover. And a little for css3 being useless for another three years until ms can get their act together.

If anyone actually _wants_ to use IE; by all means let them.

WAW!!... to all those comments that put EU on the wall of shame. The monopolistic behavior in business must be stopped as they are not legal here in EU. The EU Parlament aka Congress in us finally start to function whit all his organisms of control and administration, therefore 10 years ago it was impossible to correct or administrate such issue. But in '90s the American legislators or Court have done nothing as the only powerful enough organisms to protect the consumers of such practice. Still today the American Congress protects business interests and not people (consumers) interests.U think that US is the most free country on this world..then think again, u are free only too choose what the system give u as a choice. Is the American way.(See all those tobacco,food-meat-OGM,etc issues that u have in U.S.).These "crazy" UE just tell MS to give the opportunity to choose from a different products.
A browser is a "NEED" for a computer user, is not an optional, but most consumers are not informatics guru and they don't have a clue of the existence of the others browsers. Most of the consumer are those ho behave like xenorm says. At the beginning are less educated and they use IE even if it sucks big time and they stuck with it.
I live in EU and is not a perfect place but the consumer starts to be more protected after the mistakes of the past. Here the change start to happens. Here the lobby practice don't have the power , not yet anyway.

WAW!!... to all those comments that put EU on the wall of shame. The monopolistic behavior in business must be stopped as they are not legal here in EU. The EU Parlament aka Congress in us finally start to function whit all his organisms of control and administration, therefore 10 years ago it was impossible to correct or administrate such issue. But in '90s the American legislators or Court have done nothing as the only powerful enough organisms to protect the consumers of such practice. Still today the American Congress protects business interests and not people (consumers) interests.U think that US is the most free country on this world..then think again, u are free only too choose what the system give u as a choice. Is the American way.(See all those tobacco,food-meat-OGM,etc issues that u have in U.S.).These "crazy" UE just tell MS to give the opportunity to choose from a different products.
A browser is a "NEED" for a computer user, is not an optional, but most consumers are not informatics guru and they don't have a clue of the existence of the others browsers. Most of the consumer are those ho behave like xenorm says. At the beginning are less educated and they use IE even if it sucks big time and they stuck with it.
I live in EU and is not a perfect place but the consumer starts to be more protected after the mistakes of the past. Here the change start to happens. Here the lobby practice don't have the power , not yet anyway.

"Still today the American Congress protects business interests and not people (consumers) interests."

This is where the blue collar person seems to miss the boat IMO.

Without the businesses out there, we wouldn't have jobs to fill, which feed us. If all the "evil" businesses disapeared, you'd be out in a field living off the land.

These businesses are built by people, and ran by people.