Mozilla Developer Praises Apple, Trashes Flash
Common sense would suggest that Mozilla has, at the very least, reservations about Apple and its web strategy. Especially since Apple does not allow a full Firefox to run on its iOS and Apple's closed web strategy goes pretty much against everything Mozilla has laid out about an open web. However, Rob Sayre, who is in charge of developing the JavaScript engine for Firefox and is one of the leading developers of the browser, believes that Apple is actually great for the evolution of the Internet.
In a blog post, Sayre explains that Apple may have saved us all from the curse of plugins such as Flash and Silverlight. "The iPhone, and later the iPad, are the best things that have ever happened to keep these horizontal plugin plays from taking over the Web," he writes and continues: " Firefox has never had much leverage over plugin vendors, and products like Flash and Silverlight don’t really fit the Mozilla mission. In particular, Flash was a great product, but it never really participated in the global namespace that most webpages do. That was its main weakness."
The gratitude expressed by Sayre for Apple's good deeds goes on and he mentions that what Apple does is "great for the web." However, he admits that Mozilla may not entirely agree with this opinion: "I’m pretty sure the official Mozilla line on an OS that prevents installation of Firefox is not overwhelmingly positive. However, I think it’s the Apple business model that has freed us from unbookmarkable crap restaurant websites, not Firefox."
You can almost envision the discussions this post will spark within Mozilla and I would assume that they won't go down well in some spaces. What this post, however shows, is that some at Mozilla may be aligning their vision with the current trend that Flash is on its way out. Notice that Sayre was using past tense when he wrote about Flash: "Flash was a great product." Is Flash already dead in his opinion?
I would think that Flash will be supported in Firefox for some time, but I wonder if it makes Adobe feel uncomfortable that Mozilla developers are now talking about the end of Flash as well.
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I must agree that Flash was a great thing in the past (being nowadays nothing but junk that allows huge pop-up adverts and spying supercookies) but that guy is clearly asking for a job at Apple.
..and people wonder why FF will never come close to overtaking IE. Sayre is praising Apple...what a moron.
Apple can't allow flash on it's devices because free flash games and apps would destroy the great app store market they have. I don't like Flash in FF but it's fine in IE
I would like to see the end of Flash, Silverlight, ActiveX and H.264 in HTML5.
I would like to see the end of Flash, Silverlight, ActiveX and H.264 in HTML5.
Apple's reason to not use Flash may not be the reason why I want flash eliminated as well, but do we really have to thank Apple for killing an used-to-be-necessary evil? I think we should thank the developers of HTML5 instead.
Flash in its entirety is not bad and it has capabilities still that HTML5 does not, also a lot of the time it is not flash itself that causes problems but its implementation by the developer.
I'm a web developer and although I don't really like Flash, my clients love it and pay a premium to have big, loud, flashy Flash sites. So f#@k off, standards-Nazis and don't mess with my meal ticket.
Also Flash sites can be bookmarked and have back button functionality if the developers do them properly.
I would like to see the end of Flash, Silverlight, ActiveX and H.264 in HTML5.
Why would you want to kill H.264 in HTML5 when it presents one of the best things about HTML5: Not having to have a separate plug-in. I love HTML5. On You Tube, 1080P HTML5 video loads much faster than Flash.
While Flash brought a lot of nice features to the web, the majority of it is crap now. Flash was started for animation and cool site features but is mainly pop up adds of annoyance and crapware.
I remember designing menus for website using Flash to give it the drop down effect. But that was with Flash 4. A long time ago.
Apple's reason to not use Flash may not be the reason why I want flash eliminated as well, but do we really have to thank Apple for killing an used-to-be-necessary evil? I think we should thank the developers of HTML5 instead.
Pretty much this. All Apple did was say no to the plug-ins. HTML5 was the real reason and actually browsers like IE9 and FF 4.0 will be the real reason we see less Flash due to their push of HTML5.
I don't mind Silverlight honestly since its rare to find and when it is found, its normally just for videos which seem to playback smoother than Flash. But still a browser without a ton of addons is the best way to go for a great web experience.
The only good flash brought was that it was easily blocked by an ad aware program.
I worry about HTML 5, where ads will be harder to block!
Why would you want to kill H.264 in HTML5 when it presents one of the best things about HTML5: Not having to have a separate plug-in. I love HTML5. On You Tube, 1080P HTML5 video loads much faster than Flash.
He didn't said that wanted the video playback capabilities of html5 removed. Most likely wants to kill H.264 because it's not a open format so it shouldn't belong on HTML. The internet also had a problem in the past with another format, GIF. Most people don't want history to repeat itself.
Every time I read something about Firefox anymore...I'm more glad I never jumped on that bandwagon. The browser takes forever to load....and it doesn't load webpages any faster than IE does. In the time it takes Firefox just to load...I can be at any website of my choosing using IE or Chrome...
The only good flash brought was that it was easily blocked by an ad aware program.I worry about HTML 5, where ads will be harder to block!
HTML5 is still HTML so I don't see what would be so hard about blocking ads.
Apple's reason to not use Flash may not be the reason why I want flash eliminated as well, but do we really have to thank Apple for killing an used-to-be-necessary evil? I think we should thank the developers of HTML5 instead.
sadly no. there are great things made all the time, but they go unused because there is a standard. with apple not letting flash on the iphone or ipad, it makes a HUGE market that cant uses flash and forces developers to either abandon those platforms, or develop for them. in this case they decided to develop for them.
Someones going to create an adblocker for HTML 5 right? Cause I dont believe the ads are going to go away just because flash does!
Someones going to create an adblocker for HTML 5 right? Cause I dont believe the ads are going to go away just because flash does!
Ad blockers work by blocking content from known advertising servers (lists get updated constantly) rather than blocking Flash. Ad blockers don't block Flash because then you wouldn't be able to see videos, play games on Facebook and so on.
Hi !
I am surprised that many people state that they don't like flash because it is used to create massive pop-up adverts... As far as I am concerned 90% or more of those ads are implemented by Java script + html not flash. I would even say that flash itself is pretty harmless as without having site entirely created in flash it is not possible to have a great pop up simply because flash does not offer this kind of functionality. To create a popup advert you need to have some sort of script that will generate it and then its up to you how you gonna create the content within it and I say it again it is not flash which is harmful. I personally love flash and even though it is not great for search engines I have created few sites entirely in flash simply because there is no other way at the present to create a website that will be so smooth and that will have such visual features. I hope Apple will one day understand that and will allow flash on their devices.
Hi !I am surprised that many people state that they don't like flash because it is used to create massive pop-up adverts... As far as I am concerned 90% or more of those ads are implemented by Java script + html not flash. I would even say that flash itself is pretty harmless as without having site entirely created in flash it is not possible to have a great pop up simply because flash does not offer this kind of functionality. To create a popup advert you need to have some sort of script that will generate it and then its up to you how you gonna create the content within it and I say it again it is not flash which is harmful. I personally love flash and even though it is not great for search engines I have created few sites entirely in flash simply because there is no other way at the present to create a website that will be so smooth and that will have such visual features. I hope Apple will one day understand that and will allow flash on their devices.
Well, you are wrong! Wow, just...your comment is very amateur and if I continue commenting I would be mean so I'll refrain. Maybe think about what you just said and why it is wrong lol....
Adobe was giving away Flash not long ago. That's not something done when the product's gaining popularity.
Against flash is stupid. It is against MONEY$$$$$$. Think about it. How do ANY website generate money? It is through the advertisement. Flash is perfect for advertisement.
You cannot defeat money!
the only people that hate flash are iPeople and those iPeople are stupid enough to believe anything jobs says
Why are there so many Microsoft gimps on this site?
I don't like Firefox either, but why are there several posts praising IE9 here already. I don't think there's any other tech site you'd see such madness.
The only thing I use IE for is downloading Opera.
In my book, Opera is the best browser for Windows and Safari is the best browser for Mac OS.
PS: even the news posters constantly bash Apple and praise Microsoft.
Why are there so many Microsoft gimps on this site?I don't like Firefox either, but why are there several posts praising IE9 here already. I don't think there's any other tech site you'd see such madness.The only thing I use IE for is downloading Opera.In my book, Opera is the best browser for Windows and Safari is the best browser for Mac OS. PS: even the news posters constantly bash Apple and praise Microsoft.
i dropped opera for chrome and IE since i couldn't use opera for basic things like paying my bills or watch hockey
Why do people talk like Adobe won't be supporting or developing tools for HTML5? It isn't like the death of flash will be the death of Adobe.
Against flash is stupid. It is against MONEY$$$$$$. Think about it. How do ANY website generate money? It is through the advertisement. Flash is perfect for advertisement.You cannot defeat money!
Flash banners probably don't generate that much money unless you have huge amounts of traffic. They are usually not targeted ads, and so are irrelevant to the viewer.
crappy firefox and never-ended update and update, after reading this article, I just uninstalled it from my pc and android.
I think Apple has a second agenda, to make the browser commercially useless in order to protect AppStore and iTunes sales. Banning Flash and faking its replacement with HTML5 did the trick. If I am right Apple's conduct would be not only unfair and anti-competition but also a violation of anti-trust laws in both US and Europe.
I wrote an extensive article on the topic:
http://applesucks.squarespace.com/ [...] nable.html
At least flash lets you turn off your webcam to stop websites spying on you... Silverlight does not! Why do microsoft need to see and hear your webcam?
2010 Internet Explorer Firefox Chrome Safari Opera
December 27.5 % 43.5% 22.4% 3.8% 2.2%
@ Otacon72 "..and people wonder why FF will never come close to overtaking IE."
get your facts straight mate!
Flash is a great format, because it allows one to use vector graphics, precompiled high-performance scripts, audio/video playback, with only one source for any browser. Its specifications are also open, meaning that you don't NEED an Adobe plugin nor an Adobe design suite to create and use it - there actually are non-Adobe plugins and design software out there.
Its decade-long success is, however, based on one simple fact: the baseline browser for many websites was Internet Explorer 6, which had:
- lousy HTML support,
- atrocious CSS support,
- brain-dead Javascript support,
- convoluted audio/video support.
However, since Vista and Win7 came out, and mobiles started getting smarter, this baseline went 'boom': the share of people that just couldn't run IE 6 (I mean, on XP, even if you install Firefox, you still have IE 6 hidden away somewhere on your hard drive) went from a few percents to 45% of your potential customers - raising the baseline from "IE 6 only" to "IE 8 + W3C" - and suddenly, alternatives for several things that were until then "Flash only" on the baseline got murkier:
- vector graphics could be done through SVG and VML (see: Google Maps)
- Javascript went from bloody slow to rather fast
- at that time, several browsers had started tinkering with audio and video in HTML.
That left hardware acceleration, but even then Flash was a bit of a sad mix: depending on your display driver and/or OS of choice, Flash would disable said acceleration and revert to a VERY SLOW software rendering. And now, next-gen browsers are doing hardware acceleration, JIT Javascript compiling, animated SVG support...
So, where does it leave Flash?
- uneven support on platforms
- requires frequent out-of-band updates for performance and security reasons
- no special features, apart from the capability to playback h.264 and AAC content on browsers that don't subscribe to the MPEG-LA racket (Opera, Firefox).
In a Utopia this might be possible. But in a world of big business I don't see proprietary players like Flash completely going away. What I would like to see is the Browser developer becoming more involved in making sure these Plugin's like Flash work better. Google's Chrome for example did not just shun Flash but embedded it directly into their Browser. Personally I think Mozilla has real issues because Apple's reasoning for dumping Flash was more performance oriented then anything else. HTML5 will eventually become a standard. But it will never be the only one.
2010 Internet Explorer Firefox Chrome Safari OperaDecember 27.5 % 43.5% 22.4% 3.8% 2.2%@ Otacon72 "..and people wonder why FF will never come close to overtaking IE."get your facts straight mate!
Where are you getting those numbers?
Here are the right ones:
IE: 57.08%
FF: 22.81%
Chrome: 9.98%
Safari: 5.89%
Opera: 2.23%
Other: 2.01%
(Numbers from Dec. 2010)