Samsung Reportedly Speeds up In-House CPU Core Development, With Ex-AMD Senior Developer (Updated)
Company hopes to move beyond Arm for smartphones and laptops by 2027.
Update 03/07/2023 03:53 PT:
Samsung has written to Tom's Hardware with a statement, aiming to clear up the situation regarding its CPU development teams and plans. "A recent media report that Samsung has established an internal team dedicated to CPU core development is not true," wrote a Samsung representative. "Contrary to the news, we have long had multiple internal teams responsible for CPU development and optimization, while constantly recruiting global talents from relevant fields."
Original Article:
Some interesting rumors have bubbled up in South Korea regarding ambitious new CPU architecture plans from Samsung. Pulse News cites multiple unnamed industry sources for information about Samsung’s plans to reduce its reliance on the Arm architecture. Initially, Samsung is purportedly going to speed up development of a next-gen ‘Galaxy Chip’. The medium-term goal is to transition its laptops and smartphones away from Arm to in-house CPU cores by 2027. A senior ex-AMD engineer is said to be the project team leader.
It is probably fair to describe Samsung’s processor design history as one that isn’t filled with glory. Despite its best efforts over recent years, Exynos processors have been unable to shake their reputation for running hot and not being as performant as Qualcomm’s similar-tier Snapdragon processors. The decision with the latest Galaxy S23 flagship launch to eschew Exynos in favor of Snapdragon was the clearest sign yet that Samsung was fully aware of the superiority of its rival.
Of course, Samsung isn’t happy playing second or third fiddle, so the serious business minds at the corporation have been plotting ways to turn their processor development fortunes around. Samsung reportedly gave up on the idea of internal CPU core development back in 2019, with the dismissal of 300 developers based at the Samsung Austin Research Center in Texas. However, since mid-2021 it has been hiring engineers from AMD and Apple to form a new custom architecture team. Pulse News notes, specifically, that a senior developer that was responsible for CPU development at AMD is now leading a team “dedicated to CPU core development.”
According to the sources, Samsung is aiming to use its own CPU cores for both smartphones and laptops. The first processors based upon this new research and development efforts are expected to arrive in 2025, and they will drop the Exynos branding, instead calling them ‘Galaxy Chip(s)’. However, these first Galaxy Chip products will still probably use CPU cores based on the Arm architecture. Pulse News sources indicate that Samsung will only be ready to roll out its own architecture CPU cores by 2027, if all goes to plan.
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Designing a CPU core that doesn’t use the Arm architecture yet remains competitive would be quite a feat for Samsung. That isn’t the only hurdle it must successfully clear though, the issue of software compatibility would also need to be addressed. Also, like when Apple moved from Intel to Apple Silicon, it might need to support some kind of emulation layer, which slows architectural performance gains, to smooth the transition period.
If Samsung’s ‘own’ CPU designs aren’t an all-new architecture but instead use RISC-V cores, it could smooth some of the expected software issues. For example, Google already announced official support for RISC-V architecture processors earlier this year. Getting Microsoft’s Windows OS on the non-Arm and non=x86 notebook products would be another challenge.
Mark Tyson is a news editor at Tom's Hardware. He enjoys covering the full breadth of PC tech; from business and semiconductor design to products approaching the edge of reason.
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RichardtST Doesn't much matter. My S22 Ultra with the screaming fast processor and 120hz screen runs for all of two minutes before it overheats and goes into extra-slow mode. Between that and the nvme fiasco they've lost all my trust. Won't be buying anything from them again. I pay extra for QUALITY. I'm not an Apple fanboy paying extra just for the sake of paying extra....Reply -
RedBear87 I'm quite puzzled by this article, the original Pulse article doesn't mention anywhere that they want to develop a new architecture, it says that Samsung wants "its own CPU core"; this likely implies that instead of using ARM's licensed cores (e.g. Cortex X2, Cortex A78, etc.), which are becoming increasingly inefficient, they want to develop their own CPU core, but still based on the ARM ISA, just like Apple Silicon or even Samsung's own Mongoose core used in the Exynos series back in the days.Reply -
bit_user Samsung has had a rather troubled history in developing its own CPU and GPU cores. Anandtech dutifully chronicled their progress, and Andrei Frumusanu wrote a nice epilogue of their custom core efforts:Reply
https://www.anandtech.com/show/15061/samsung-to-cease-custom-cpu-developmenthttps://www.anandtech.com/show/15826/isca-2020-evolution-of-the-samsung-exynos-cpu-microarchitecture
And of their in-house GPU program, which they scrapped in favor of licensing AMD's RDNA (according to the first link, just as their in-house GPU efforts were coming to fruition... perhaps even spurring the switch to RDNA by falling short of expectations?):
https://www.anandtech.com/show/14483/samsung-and-amd-announce-multiyear-strategic-graphics-ip-licensing-deal-for-slsi-mobile-gpushttps://www.anandtech.com/show/14492/samsung-amds-gpu-licensing-an-interesting-collaboration
I just hope Samsung learned a thing or two from their prior efforts and doesn't repeat the same mistakes. It sounds as if the CPU team was too resource-starved to continue developing their cores at a competitive pace. -
bit_user the issue of software compatibility would also need to be addressed. Also, like when Apple moved from Intel to Apple Silicon, it might need to support some kind of emulation layer, which slows architectural performance gains, to smooth the transition period.
If it's not ARM ISA, then it'll definitely be RISC-V. There's no other viable option, given the amount of software that would have to be rewritten.
Second, as long as it's an ISA that's officially supported by Android, it's meaningless to talk about emulation. Sure, Android has a NDK and that makes it possible to write native code for one architecture and not others, but Android is about as ISA-agnostic as anything out there. Plus, I expect we'll see a lot of smartphone activity on the RISC-V front, which means game engines and other important NDK-users will start adding native support for RISC-V, also. -
bit_user
From the article:peachpuff said:Because one senior amd developer is going to fix everything? Good luck with that...
since mid-2021 it has been hiring engineers from AMD and Apple to form a new custom architecture team. Pulse News notes, specifically, that a senior developer that was responsible for CPU development at AMD is now leading a team “dedicated to CPU core development.” -
Findecanor Samsung has an "architectural license" for the 64-bit ARM architecture. (At least, I can find web sources from 2021 that say that they do)Reply
It means that Samsung has the same right as Apple, Qualcomm and AMD to design and market their own processor cores that run ARM code.
This is most likely what they are planning to do. -
sygreenblum Findecanor said:Samsung has an "architectural license" for the 64-bit ARM architecture. (At least, I can find web sources from 2021 that say that they do)
It means that Samsung has the same right as Apple, Qualcomm and AMD to design and market their own processor cores that run ARM code.
This is most likely what they are planning to do.
That's indeed true and would make the most sense although this article seems indicate they are moving away from arm in general. This would leave pretty much only Risc-v as an option. Building a new architecture from the ground up is incredibly difficult and few succeed especially nowadays. Even Apple and it's unlimited budget chose to go with their own version of Arm. This is why I happen agree with you. In all likelihood it will be a custom Arm as a completely new architecture would be a tremendous undertaking. Not to mention the massive stack of software that would need to be rewritten.
Arms fees are actually pretty reasonable so the only real advantage for Samsung if they went Risc-V is the freedom to do whatever they want with the architecture. -
Alvar "Miles" Udell After the steaming pile of poo my Galaxy S22+ has been, and the below market value trade in amounts Samsung offered people for their S22 series devices, it wouldn't matter to me if Galaxy phones outperformed Apple and Pixel devices by over 100%, I still wouldn't use them.Reply -
bit_user
Apple had a lot invested in ARM, from their decades of using it in iPods and iPhones. The cores in their ARM-based Macs are even reused from their phone SoCs.sygreenblum said:Even Apple and it's unlimited budget chose to go with their own version of Arm.
They might not always be. And if Samsung ever wanted to sell its SoCs to 3rd parties, they could face the same issues that ARM is currently fighting Qualcomm over.sygreenblum said:Arms fees are actually pretty reasonable
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/arm-sues-qualcomm-and-nuvia-for-breaking-license-agreement