I believe pirating is hurting the pc gaming market, but low end IGP's on most entry level pc's can't be helping either. I don't think we can blame either as being more significant. I think IGP's need to be faster to allow more people to play games. I don't pirate games, I buy all of them with my own money. I could have bought a new gpu and cpu, or a pc for the amount I've spent on games.

I must have been scammed when I bought gow for pc...

PC games to succeed need for the most part to have an online component that sucks the user in and keeps them coming. How else can Valve be so freaking successful? The problem with EPIC in my view is I think they became lazy. Make pretty graphical game. Assume everyone will buy it even though the game is not drastically different from all the other games EPIC has made. I owned UT, UT Tournament, UT 2003, '04 ....and I stopped. I was/am interested in UT III but is it all that much different than the TF2 and CoD IV, or BF2 I still play now? It is a crowded field and EPIC has just stated they cannot handle the competition. I wonder how well UT III sales have held up in the console market?

I should add to EPIC's commments many of the same savy high end GPU gamers also know and do mod their consoles as well. I see as many if not more download areas for 360,Wii, PSP downloads. Anyway ..... I am just irritated at Epic.

well he does make a point most people that have technical skills know how easy it is to pirate a game. online games are less likely to be pirated though.

LOL what an idiot.. Sorry but he is. Most people that are "savvy" enough to replace a video card.. Guess what still know how to pirate consoles. Only difference is some consoles take mod chips. Whippy do dah.

yea i agree with you crock, modding consoles is not a super hard thing to do. i also noticed the pattern too that games that have a fun online component sell A LOT more and are not pirated very often compared to the rest. no one ever pirate TF2 because it doesnt even have a single player, and who is going to pirate BF2 unless they want to play with bots all day. make a game great and fun, and people will pirate it, and buy it as well...such as in the case of the first crysis, it sold 1mill+ and the developers were still whining.

but make a great online game, and you'll reap the rewards such as Valve, Blizzard...

While it might be true that many people mod their Consoles, I believe the sales numbers do speak for themselves. You sell 10 million on the console and 300,000 on the PC and it's pretty easy to see where the market is. And if it was my money to invest, I'm putting it where I'm mostly likely going to make the most money, with the least amount of risk.
PC pirating is going to kill the PC gaming market, except for games like WoW, WAR and other Subscription based games. Or force such radical DRM that no one will want the game on their system.

i agree that i would put in the area that makes the most money w/least risk, but 10 million to 300,000 is not a very fair comparison.

to my knowledge, correct me if i'm wrong, but i never seen a console game sell 10 million copies. cross platforms for a combined sale, maybe...but one console by itself, i never heard/seen it.

besides if they do cross platforms, they have to port it to the other consoles and often times PC's is in also, but i guess EPIC is changing their ways for GOW2. when UT first came out, it was a great game but i agree with crock on his views as well, UT03,04...etc. nothing really changed much. for the most part the guns were still the same and they added vehicles and such. it wasn't a revolutionary thing and EPIC has used the same formula for all their UT series, which grew stale over time as more great FPS series came out and took the crown away from UT.

GOW was their most recent break and i think it did really well on consoles, b/c consoles lack FPS where the PC HAS TONS. COD IV and HALO was the last FPS on consoles that really made a mark. honestly though, shooting people while using one joystick to move and the other to aim isn't really my cup of tea for a FPS. i'll pass on console FPS. imo, if a console gamer has a choice of a FPS on a console or PC, they would undoubtedly pick the PC version (if they have a good PC at that).

my suggestion i would give EPIC is, make a game that people WANT TO PAY to PLAY, not some recycled cr*p that uses the same formula year after year after year with a face lift. create something like team fortress 2 as a FPS, and they'll rank it millions.

More DRM = more piracy
Why the hell does Crysis Warhead is half priced compared to other games? It is much better then 99,999% of the 360 shooters (some say halo, I say only gears). So a good product must be cheap and free of injuries (read DRM) for costumers.

With the current economy don´t expect us to buy U$60 games, pay for live and be happy with it. Good games don´t cost as much, and please do learn something with NFS Pro Street: crappy sales since you have to pay for every single car worth playing.

This won't kill pc gaming in the end...I don't think.

Only the game companies that make good, new games will make money off of us. People will pirate everyone else's crap games, and they'll go away.

Eventually those that left will see the entire pc gaming market paying huge dough to a small few good game companies, and they'll want their slice.

...and so the cycle shall be. It may hurt pc gaming significantly, and that is unfortunate, but I doubt it will kill it.

I happen to know that 90% of the people I know that own X-Box 360 or any similar console has that console "chipped" or "modded" and has stacks of illegally pirated games.

Piracy is a reality for console just as much as it is for PC. Design a good game and people will buy it.

If your game only has enough content for users to burn through in 2-3 days of hardcore playing, no one is going to buy it and everyone is going to pirate it.

Quit blaming piracy for bad games getting pirated. People will always pirate games, only the good gaming developers will get the support (EA Spore just SOLD 1 million copies for being a highly imaginitive and anticipated game).

Bad game development companies that just hype up a bad game and release it with barely enough content to keep the gamer happy for a week will in the end fail as development companies.

The desire for games and game content has changed too, but remmeber even successful games in the past (Space Quest, Police Quest) had enough challenges and content for its time to keep people busy for weeks on end.

Its time that gaming companies stepped up to the reality of the requirements of a modern day gamer.

If you think piracy is not just as rampant on consoles as PCs, you're kidding yourself.

I'd be more inclined to believe poor sales of GOW1 on PC were because of the really bad console port, and the game was rather boring for PC gamers. There are a million better shooter games available on PC than GOW.

I'm tending to agree with most posters here. PC games sales are hurting because of lack luster sales. Good games sell pretty well. I'm sure Valve absolutely no plans to leave the PC market any time soon. Even Crytek was whining, but I bet know that their games are on sale and Warhead seems to be a hit they will keep making games for us PC gamers. Plus, if you can add another 300,000 - 1,000,000 units in sales I think it would be worth it to make a PC version.

Oh yeah, it also seems like hardcore PC gamers are much more selective in the games they buy than the large market of console gamers. Maybe I'm wrong though (I did buy Alone in the Dark and Timeshift :-( )

Valve has shown how PC gaming can be profitable, convenient and piracy-free with it's Steam system. When will all these developers wake up and get with the times. Please, please, please Mr. Bleszinski before you dismiss PC gaming release your games on Steam or develop a similar system of your own. Making some games that PC gamers actually want play wouldn't harm you either.

I am sick of these morons repeatedly releasing their games on a format that they know is not secure and will be pirated and then getting upset. Requiring an internet connection to play is not an issue any more. Who does not have one these days? Protect your executables, only give them to people who hold an online account with you like on Steam and let's move on to the future of PC games.

i'll buy an xbox 360 and download the game.
i bought many of their games. i'm not planning on giving them my money. if they say i don't deserve to play a f***ing game, they don't deserve to take my money too.
i'm going to give more to microsoft for a console, and keep my pc for downloading games.
why upgrade and give $499 for a 4870x2? buy a console, download and play.
easy......

HAHAH what a joke, only "savvy" pc gamers know about torrents, hahah Epic should talk to the music industry and ask them where the pirated music comes from!!!
The main reason (i think) games are pirated is because the price!!! i think that if they want to effectively fight piracy they should reduce the price of the games, and not use piracy as an excuse to control the user and the market (SecuRom)

console hardware = almost 4 gens old... I remember the first games I pirated where for the PS1. I believe that's where a lot of it started, on consoles, where you could rent a game from blockbuster and just copy the disc.

not to sound like a snob, but every console FPS i've played is BORING. when my friends got the 360 and were raving about how great Halo was, and how GOW is so fun, i tried it just to play with them, and to be honest, i was bored. honestly, my own opinion, but i think hardcore PC gamers have a WAY different HIGHER expectation of their games. if you're a casual gamer then console is fine, knock yourself out, but for me, i expect more for my money and that's why i went from console to PC.

well it's good to see developers leaving the pc scene. In my opinion weed out the lazy developers and let them all flock to consoles. The fans that were ditched (UT,Quake) will move to the companies who are left making pc games and sales will jump showing major profits.

Meanwhile in the console scene, with the influx of game developers and truckloads of games being released every other week. It's gonna be interesting to see how they'll play that one out. Perhaps blame console piracy for low sales?

Cliff is a smart man, but there are ways around his problem... If he made gow2 cross platform, as hard as it may be, it would launch sales up... i would def buy gow if it was cross platform, even if i dot have it for 360

im just hoping future games would be cross platform.. my bros like the 360, i like my pc

OMG!!!! are you kidding, this is like reason for building comp.

Just because I know how to install graphics card, use debugger to crack CD check and find torrent online, doesn't mean I will pirate games. I don't pirate games.

GOW had better stay on console. It is a good console shooter, but PC porting is just bad. Plus PC gamers are more into MMORPG (which I hate), FPS and RTS. Not many 3PS series are hot in PC gaming market.

Not everyone has an internet connection for online only protection. Where i live its a bit in the middle of nowhere, hence PC is the only thing to do, if all games had to go online to authenticate itd be a bit poor as it would take forever on a 56k dialup. Mind when i actually had decent net the Steam way of doing things was brilliant.

10 million to 300,000 was an example, not an actual number. The number reported is 5.2 million (http://xboxoz360gamer.com/2008/05/28/gears-of-war-2-sales-prediction-the-game-will-sell-10million-copies-worldwide/)

Here is another article showing the sales difference between Xbox and PCs.
You can say Console people steal just as much as PC users, but the numbers beg to differ. Whatever the reason, the money is in Consoles more than PCs

I never liked "Cliffy B" just because he has an arrogant, smug attitude about himself. Or maybe that's just the way he comes across. He could be a nice guy for all I know. But his statement is just retarded and I'm guessing it's just a cheap cop out. Basically, he's saying most people who have high-end computers pirate games. Anyone is smart enough to pirate software. I've said it once, and I'll say it again, the idea that piracy is so rampant on the PC that companies are losing millions is a myth. Piracy was just as big in the 80s and 90s if not bigger. And console piracy is just as big. I can understand the fact that the average Joe doesn't have the hardware to run graphic-intensive games and that it's easier to just create a generic console version. But no, he gives the tired, weak excuse of piracy. People complain about DRM, but it's smug developers who completely ignore a platform that make me want to see a huge organized campaign to pirate the game on consoles. It uses the Unreal engine. It should be easy and cheap to port to the PC. I wouldn't have wasted money on it anyways, but I just hate ignorant comments.

GOW sold like crap on the PC because you had to pay for the multiplayer component only to be able to play against like 4 other people. Why bother when games like UT 2k4 and C)D4 with free multiplayer exist with up to 50 players total? Not to mention that GOW was not optimized for PC. I bought it, and I wish I didn't. The game stutters like mad on an E2200 @ 3 Ghz and 8800GT. No new drivers helped. Loads of people on epics forums had the same issue. For a company that got its stary in the PC gaming world, they failed massively with GOW PC.

Opps, here the link I meant to post in the other thread
http://www.primotechnology.com/200 [...] pc-gaming/
It doesn't have Gears of War sales numbers, but other popular titles like Bioshock and Call of Duty 4

*snip*
"..but a Bioshock 360 to Bioshock PC (800,000 in its first month to the PC version’s 80,000) or the order of magnitude difference between the 360 and PC versions of Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare (383,000 for PC and 3.04 million for Xbox 360). Infinity Ward’s Community Relations manager Rob Bowling attributed the low PC sales numbers to rampant piracy..."
**Snip

Pretending GoW had the same PC vs Xbox sales numbers. It's pretty easy to see why they wouldn't bother with a PC version. Please note, I'm a PC gamer, not a consoler

First off, it would be pretty easy to stop pirating if they weren't so damn lazy. You don't even need to include any drm to do it either. Secondly, the games that are ported to the pc usually feel terribly out of place as far as controls and UI go, so I purposely don't buy them.

This is MS fault... They could shut the door on this in a heart beat.
yeah the idea to create a console game first then port it to the PC and they wonder why we don't those games... hello I will buy a console if I wanted to play those games. Stop this butchery of FPS mechanics cause its harder for the console players. Blah, same old same old until the market crashes on them again and a new Carmack has to reinvent the gaming world.

The ACTUAL reasons that consoles are more profitable;

A. Single architecture per console
B. Ease of use(put disc in, play)
C. (Relatively) cheap hardware

These qualities of console gaming will always make them more attractive to those are not as tech savvy. And therefor consoles will always have SMALLER piracy issues.

However, Bleszinski, like many others in the game dev industry, ASSUMES that every pirated copy of a game is one that would have been purchased, new, from a store.

The truth is most pirated games are ones that the pirate would NEVER consider BUYING!

I myself pirate every game without a demo, and play the demos of the rest. The difference between the good games and the rest is that I actually pay the dev of the good game, the rest I either just play the demo, or flat-out pirate with no concern at all.

And so, every studio that chooses to not support PC gaming is most likely just unable to compete.

Pirates forced you to leave the PC game-dev arena by not paying you? No, they weren't going to pay you a dime either way. Your lack of skills relative to the rest of the PC game studios forced you to leave and you chose to shamefully play the blame with pirates? DEFINITE YES!

This isn't the death of anything...


...except for lazy studios that don't want to compete in the (relatively) elite world of PC gaming.