AMD Releases Beta OpenCL 1.2 Driver For Developers, Announces HSA Runtime For Linux

12804711 said:

12803874 said:

This solution will have about as much success as Mantle. OpenGL has it's features and DX is getting them soon, just like Cuda has had 7yrs of billions poured into it and Cuda6+Maxwell is the same. HSA has to take out Cuda, which is kind of like AMD taking out Intel. Mantle has to take out DX/OpenGL, same story. Good luck with that. Freesync (beta) has to take out Gsync (here now) and both require monitors to be bought. Gsync will be set in stone by the time Freesync gets out of beta and on top of that it's not as good and certainly not FREE as the name implies (still need a new monitor, desktop ones don't even support it yet if ever).

Hundreds of PRO apps already support Cuda and migrating them to Cuda6/maxwell gpus isn't as hard as getting new support for HSA. Game over man...If you're going to cause a lot more work for a dev, you'd better be able to explain how it blows away what they already have invested in heavily. If all it does is copy the same features what is the point in supporting it? I need to gain something right? It's also a lot easier to push a new standard from a position of money/power/market share, which AMD has no such position in anything. Broke/weakness can't push anything up a hill.

I disagree with you but you already countered your own point. OpenCL is supported by both Nvidia and AMD. If I was investing money it would not be in a proprietary solution that only works with one type of hardware especially if I was trying to sell something as a package to others like how Photoshop CS6 dropped CUDA for OpenCL support. You will see this trend out over the years as CUDA disappears from the landscape. The same will be said of Mantle years from now as it dies off because OpenGL and DirectX are going to finally step up to the plate. Both CUDA and Mantle will have done something great which is to force the hand of the tech industry to create standards.

The same thing will be the case with Gsync and Freesync five or so years down the road when the basic functionality is baked into every GPU and monitor as a VESA standard as it naturally will because of power savings with a nice plus for gamers.

Adobe didn't drop CUDA. It's still in there, works fine. AMD just paid them to support OpenCL so they could join the party. I'm pretty sure there isn't any point in saying more when you don't even know the product you're talking about. OpenCL isn't supported by Nvidia. It may function, but that isn't the same as being optimized (supported). If you buy NV cards for WORK, you already know you should be running CUDA period. Cuda loses NOTHING vs. OpenCL in the real world (meaning stuff you make money with). Stupid tests like mining, F@H, the dumb OpenCL vid/photo tests tomshardware runs etc, can show NV in a bad light, but only because NV knows you'll use CUDA instead and doesn't seem to care what an OpenCL benchmark shows (workstation users know the real story, and websites can't show anything different so they'll keep buying CUDA). OpenCL is for poor people that can't afford a CUDA PRO card (and support that comes with it) or the expensive software you BUY a Cuda card for ;) Pro's know you buy CUDA if you want to get work done faster and actually RUN the tests websites won't tell you about before investing tons of cash into a loser. Why do you think NV's gpu sales revenue on PRO cards goes up and AMD gains no share? If you don't make the smart decision the guy who does make that decision will run you over.

NV has no reason to optimize for this junk that makes ZERO profits for business where they rule 90% of workstations already. Why would you waste resources optimizing for ANY app/API you already dominate with your current tech? You won't see MS supporting Mantle either unless the market forces them to (there is no way for AMD to pay for that to happen). Adobe dropped nothing, they are merely ADDING support for AMD because AMD paid them to. Speaking of which, we heard about OpenCL support for Adobe a year ago, where is it? AMD didn't pay enough I suppose to keep it on Adobe's front burner (you don't see adobe pitching it front and center on their pages either) or it just sucks right? AMD should have gotten that in Adobe software 5-7 years ago. Too late to take out the guy who has been spending on cuda for 7yrs and STILL is. If it's working & anywhere near as fast as AMD's fireprographics site shows how come we get no tests vs. Cuda and AMD is SILENT on this great stuff they have?? AMD made a lot of noise but hasn't shown anything in a year. It supposedly works fine in Adobe CC and CS6 (2012 app), yet we get no benchmarks from tomshardware, anandtech etc or even AMD themselves (one chart that doesn't show much)...Odd? I don't think so, they just both hate proprietary stuff and push OpenCL junk instead even though they KNOW cuda wins. I like OPEN standards when they are BETTER, but not when they get their clocks cleaned by proprietary stuff. I can understand neither site wanting AMD to get any weaker, but BSing the public at large (or hiding info we need and KNOW you must have knowledge of) only hurts your credibility in the end. Toms runs adobe tests, but pretends it doesn't support CUDA. I guess that's why you think it doesn't. Hence my BSing the public comment. They might not come out and say Cuda sucks (you can't that's a total lie and provable if they said that), but NOT saying what they know is true (it rocks in PRO apps) is the same thing as spouting lies IMHO.

Again, why do you think Toms, anandtech etc never test CUDA vs. OpenCL? Because it's no contest. NV has poured BILLIONS into cuda, schools to teach it etc. AMD has lost 6BILLION+ over the last 10yrs. Read that again. They haven't made a profit over the last 10yrs. Why do you think they are 7yrs late to the PRO party? Why do you think their OpenCL claim to fame is a SINGLE app from Adobe? Why do you think they have no Moblie SOC yet? You can add up all the years AMD has been in business and they've never made a penny over the life of their company. Read that again. Come back when you can explain to me how a company who has NEVER made a dime over the life of their company & has billions of debt, will take down any company with ZERO debt, billions in the bank and leading technology.

Come back when all of your fantasies are reality. Until then CUDA and it's dominance is reality. Come back when AMD owns 90% of the workstation market and can push a new standard. Come back when OpenCL is winning VS cuda in Adobe photo or video editing tests. Tomshardware and anandtech never respond when I quiz them on why they don't put Cuda vs. OpenCL EVER.

When you ask people who USE this stuff and not just read websites that hide cuda or never pit it vs. OpenCL what do you get? :
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?107980-Adobe-CUDA-vs-Open-CL-780ti-vs-R9-290

Mantle will die because others that are entrenched (DX/OpenGL) can do the same stuff and are backed by a TON of people & money already and every game company knows this tech, while they have to learn mantle and by all accounts it probably isn't worth wasting the effort for 7-12% and a small portion of the market.

You are investing due to "feelings" where I don't care about proprietary as a stock buyer, I only care that what I buy WINS and makes me money. I will sit here and tell you I hate NV owning workstation graphics (but love the perf), but in the same second buy another 1000 shares...LOL. My feelings about apple has NEVER stopped me from buying the crap out of their shares when I think they will make me money (I do not like their tactics, despite great products for some uses). It never stopped me from buying MSFT either, despite me basically despising them even though my job depends on them (for now).

Gsync will win because it's backed by a profitable company and is ALREADY here now, usable for GAMERS. AMD can't even fund what they have going now (phase3 drivers come to mind, cpu race given up, running to low end, can't field a mobile device etc), but you somehow think they'll manage to fund mantle to victory, fund OpenCL to take out the KING Cuda, and fund Freesync (not free, need a monitor too, maybe should be called Onedayyoumightsync?) to conquer already here Gsync. How can you live so far from reality and mention buying stocks?

Funding problems are killing AMD's dreams. They couldn't fund a decent cooling solution for their ref cards. They can't fund freesync into a product, can't get Mantle out of beta, can't get out of phases for drivers, can't get OpenCL in much of anything of value (mining, F@H don't count), can't fund an attack on mobile with ARM (only server, where everyone else already coming with 20nm while seattle will sit at 28nm first), stuck at 28nm because they have to go tried/true rather than risk a move to 20nm etc. Worse if AMD is REALLY selling to mining people, gamers aren't even getting mantle capable cards in their hands. Translation, NV will steal more share where it matters; People who play games or use PRO apps (even grid going up, now 200 companies testing it, up from 47 testing it). Mining is a temp world and 437mil stolen by the bitcoin guy shows it's fools gold if you hold these things, note the grins in photos...LOL I said this would happen), while gamers are the REAL WORLD for GPU makers. What does AMD do? They put up a slide showing MINING...ROFL. AMD appears to not understand WE GAME, very few of us MINE anything. Very few of us (165K out of 7Bil people) F@H. Many of those downloads are NOT home users also. AMD should have cut that crap out and concentrated on GAMING which is what sells cards long term.

I suggest you never buy stocks. If you can't buy purely because of LOVE for MONEY, you're going to lose your shirt. The second you love the company you bought you're dead. You can love a company as a USER, not as a stock buyer.

Go to Adobe.com and punch Nvidia Cuda into the search box. Tell me again they dumped it. They have a post on a Cuda 5.5x fix hours ago...I digress...

12804711 said:

12803874 said:

This solution will have about as much success as Mantle. OpenGL has it's features and DX is getting them soon, just like Cuda has had 7yrs of billions poured into it and Cuda6+Maxwell is the same. HSA has to take out Cuda, which is kind of like AMD taking out Intel. Mantle has to take out DX/OpenGL, same story. Good luck with that. Freesync (beta) has to take out Gsync (here now) and both require monitors to be bought. Gsync will be set in stone by the time Freesync gets out of beta and on top of that it's not as good and certainly not FREE as the name implies (still need a new monitor, desktop ones don't even support it yet if ever). Hundreds of PRO apps already support Cuda and migrating them to Cuda6/maxwell gpus isn't as hard as getting new support for HSA. Game over man...If you're going to cause a lot more work for a dev, you'd better be able to explain how it blows away what they already have invested in heavily. If all it does is copy the same features what is the point in supporting it? I need to gain something right? It's also a lot easier to push a new standard from a position of money/power/market share, which AMD has no such position in anything. Broke/weakness can't push anything up a hill.

I disagree with you but you already countered your own point. OpenCL is supported by both Nvidia and AMD. If I was investing money it would not be in a proprietary solution that only works with one type of hardware especially if I was trying to sell something as a package to others like how Photoshop CS6 dropped CUDA for OpenCL support. You will see this trend out over the years as CUDA disappears from the landscape. The same will be said of Mantle years from now as it dies off because OpenGL and DirectX are going to finally step up to the plate. Both CUDA and Mantle will have done something great which is to force the hand of the tech industry to create standards. The same thing will be the case with Gsync and Freesync five or so years down the road when the basic functionality is baked into every GPU and monitor as a VESA standard as it naturally will because of power savings with a nice plus for gamers.

Adobe didn't drop CUDA. It's still in there, works fine. AMD just paid them to support OpenCL so they could join the party. I'm pretty sure there isn't any point in saying more when you don't even know the product you're talking about. OpenCL isn't supported by Nvidia. It may function, but that isn't the same as being optimized (supported). If you buy NV cards for WORK, you already know you should be running CUDA period. Cuda loses NOTHING vs. OpenCL in the real world (meaning stuff you make money with). Stupid tests like mining, F@H, the dumb OpenCL vid/photo tests tomshardware runs etc, can show NV in a bad light, but only because NV knows you'll use CUDA instead and doesn't seem to care what an OpenCL benchmark shows (workstation users know the real story, and websites can't show anything different so they'll keep buying CUDA). OpenCL is for poor people that can't afford a CUDA PRO card (and support that comes with it) or the expensive software you BUY a Cuda card for ;) Pro's know you buy CUDA if you want to get work done faster and actually RUN the tests websites won't tell you about before investing tons of cash into a loser. Why do you think NV's gpu sales revenue on PRO cards goes up and AMD gains no share? If you don't make the smart decision the guy who does make that decision will run you over. NV has no reason to optimize for this junk that makes ZERO profits for business where they rule 90% of workstations already. Why would you waste resources optimizing for ANY app/API you already dominate with your current tech? You won't see MS supporting Mantle either unless the market forces them to (there is no way for AMD to pay for that to happen). Adobe dropped nothing, they are merely ADDING support for AMD because AMD paid them to. Speaking of which, we heard about OpenCL support for Adobe a year ago, where is it? AMD didn't pay enough I suppose to keep it on Adobe's front burner (you don't see adobe pitching it front and center on their pages either) or it just sucks right? AMD should have gotten that in Adobe software 5-7 years ago. Too late to take out the guy who has been spending on cuda for 7yrs and STILL is. If it's working & anywhere near as fast as AMD's fireprographics site shows how come we get no tests vs. Cuda and AMD is SILENT on this great stuff they have?? AMD made a lot of noise but hasn't shown anything in a year. It supposedly works fine in Adobe CC and CS6 (2012 app), yet we get no benchmarks from tomshardware, anandtech etc or even AMD themselves (one chart that doesn't show much)...Odd? I don't think so, they just both hate proprietary stuff and push OpenCL junk instead even though they KNOW cuda wins. I like OPEN standards when they are BETTER, but not when they get their clocks cleaned by proprietary stuff. I can understand neither site wanting AMD to get any weaker, but BSing the public at large (or hiding info we need and KNOW you must have knowledge of) only hurts your credibility in the end. Toms runs adobe tests, but pretends it doesn't support CUDA. I guess that's why you think it doesn't. Hence my BSing the public comment. They might not come out and say Cuda sucks (you can't that's a total lie and provable if they said that), but NOT saying what they know is true (it rocks in PRO apps) is the same thing as spouting lies IMHO.Again, why do you think Toms, anandtech etc never test CUDA vs. OpenCL? Because it's no contest. NV has poured BILLIONS into cuda, schools to teach it etc. AMD has lost 6BILLION+ over the last 10yrs. Read that again. They haven't made a profit over the last 10yrs. Why do you think they are 7yrs late to the PRO party? Why do you think their OpenCL claim to fame is a SINGLE app from Adobe? Why do you think they have no Moblie SOC yet? You can add up all the years AMD has been in business and they've never made a penny over the life of their company. Read that again. Come back when you can explain to me how a company who has NEVER made a dime over the life of their company & has billions of debt, will take down any company with ZERO debt, billions in the bank and leading technology.Come back when all of your fantasies are reality. Until then CUDA and it's dominance is reality. Come back when AMD owns 90% of the workstation market and can push a new standard. Come back when OpenCL is winning VS cuda in Adobe photo or video editing tests. Tomshardware and anandtech never respond when I quiz them on why they don't put Cuda vs. OpenCL EVER.When you ask people who USE this stuff and not just read websites that hide cuda or never pit it vs. OpenCL what do you get? :http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?107980-Adobe-CUDA-vs-Open-CL-780ti-vs-R9-290Mantle will die because others that are entrenched (DX/OpenGL) can do the same stuff and are backed by a TON of people & money already and every game company knows this tech, while they have to learn mantle and by all accounts it probably isn't worth wasting the effort for 7-12% and a small portion of the market. You are investing due to "feelings" where I don't care about proprietary as a stock buyer, I only care that what I buy WINS and makes me money. I will sit here and tell you I hate NV owning workstation graphics (but love the perf), but in the same second buy another 1000 shares...LOL. My feelings about apple has NEVER stopped me from buying the crap out of their shares when I think they will make me money (I do not like their tactics, despite great products for some uses). It never stopped me from buying MSFT either, despite me basically despising them even though my job depends on them (for now). Gsync will win because it's backed by a profitable company and is ALREADY here now, usable for GAMERS. AMD can't even fund what they have going now (phase3 drivers come to mind, cpu race given up, running to low end, can't field a mobile device etc), but you somehow think they'll manage to fund mantle to victory, fund OpenCL to take out the KING Cuda, and fund Freesync (not free, need a monitor too, maybe should be called Onedayyoumightsync?) to conquer already here Gsync. How can you live so far from reality and mention buying stocks?Funding problems are killing AMD's dreams. They couldn't fund a decent cooling solution for their ref cards. They can't fund freesync into a product, can't get Mantle out of beta, can't get out of phases for drivers, can't get OpenCL in much of anything of value (mining, F@H don't count), can't fund an attack on mobile with ARM (only server, where everyone else already coming with 20nm while seattle will sit at 28nm first), stuck at 28nm because they have to go tried/true rather than risk a move to 20nm etc. Worse if AMD is REALLY selling to mining people, gamers aren't even getting mantle capable cards in their hands. Translation, NV will steal more share where it matters; People who play games or use PRO apps (even grid going up, now 200 companies testing it, up from 47 testing it). Mining is a temp world and 437mil stolen by the bitcoin guy shows it's fools gold if you hold these things, note the grins in photos...LOL I said this would happen), while gamers are the REAL WORLD for GPU makers. What does AMD do? They put up a slide showing MINING...ROFL. AMD appears to not understand WE GAME, very few of us MINE anything. Very few of us (165K out of 7Bil people) F@H. Many of those downloads are NOT home users also. AMD should have cut that crap out and concentrated on GAMING which is what sells cards long term.I suggest you never buy stocks. If you can't buy purely because of LOVE for MONEY, you're going to lose your shirt. The second you love the company you bought you're dead. You can love a company as a USER, not as a stock buyer. Go to Adobe.com and punch Nvidia Cuda into the search box. Tell me again they dumped it. They have a post on a Cuda 5.5x fix hours ago...I digress...

Hey genius. It's called Free-Sync because it's not proprietary, NOT because you can have it for *zero* costs. Any GPU that can control VBLANK and any monitor that supports VBLANK control CAN support Free-Sync, unlike G-Sync, where you have to buy newer Nvidia GPUs, select monitors( if you're buying a new one) or an AIB if you already have a supported monitor/s, and those makers of said monitors have to get the licence from Nvidia to support G-Sync, WHICH MAKES IT PROPRIETARY. It's like your saying Ubuntu or Linux Mint isn't free because you have to have a PC for it.AMD doesn't *have* to support OpenCL, or Mantle, or Free-Sync, or add in decent cooling solutions on their GPUs( which for all intents and purposes CAN keep a 290 or 290X below 80C, it's just that it is LOUD). OpenCl is an open compute standard, so really anybody can support OpenCL, NOT just AMD. Even Intel has some level of support for OpenCL. Mantle was only meant to be a catalyst for DirectX and OpenGL to get off their lazy asses and actually start improving their APIs. As soon as AMD starts seeing improvements, they can completely drop Mantle. Based on what have said, they have had the capability to do Free-Sync on their GPUs for a couple of GPU cycles, so all they need to do is keep releasing GPUs like they do, wait for DP 1.3 to come out, and show what monitors can do Free-Sync, and they're already supporting Free-Sync. They don't *need* to improve their cooling solutions, when their AIB partners already have better solutions.And why shouldn't mining or folding count? Oh, because they show AMD( and subsequently OpenCL) in a good light? Why can you say that, and not expect me to say that Nvidia's CUDA performance in Adobe shouldn't matter then? You're saying that "WE GAME", yet you're talking about editing? How many gamers actually edit videos? And how many of those gamers actually need the difference in performance between CUDA and OpenCL between similarly priced AMD and Nvidia cards?And AMD has NEVER been profitable EVER? Well http://arstechnica.com/business/2013/04/the-rise-and-fall-of-amd-how-an-underdog-stuck-it-to-intel/ "and in 2000 the company earned nearly $1 billion in profits.". Sounds like you haven't been around long enough to know that AMD was beating Intel back in the day, which made them PROFITABLE.And you suddenly started talking about stocks. Yeah? How did that fit in the original discussion? It sounds like you just bought your first stocks and wanted to show everyone that you're now an investor, and defend the company you just bought shares in from anyone who says something that *might* affect the profitability of your stocks. You imply you want to make money, so tell me that again when AMD dies because people kept supporting proprietary solutions and Nvidia has no competitor in the high-end space, letting them have full control on how much extra they want on their cards.Proprietary is better than open source currently. And, for Nvidia, it should. They've invested a lot of money into making their proprietary solutions the standards in their respective markets. Good for them. But what about everyone else? Other companies have to licence proprietary solutions, adding to the cost of the end consumer. Companies who can't licence it and instead have another solution will be left in the dust even if their solution is *potentially* as fast as the proprietary one as no major programs support it, so no one gives a rat's ass.Open source CAN be as fast as proprietary, everyone just needs to stop being greedy and actually help in developing for it.