Intel’s next-gen desktop CPUs may run even hotter than current ones — chipmaker allegedly extends maximum temperature for Arrow Lake CPUs
But not for Lunar Lake.
Intel has reportedly increased the maximum thermal junction (TJMax) temperature for its upcoming codenamed Arrow Lake and Panther Lake processors to 105 degrees Celsius, according to a leak by Jaykihn. Jaykihn is a blogger who seems to have access to samples of Intel's upcoming processors and not-yet-released documents.
Typically, Intel's processors feature a maximum thermal junction temperature of 100 degrees Celsius, which is the case with Alder Lake and Raptor Lake CPUs and will reportedly be the case with the next-generation Lunar Lake processors. However, the TJMax of Intel's Core Ultra (codenamed Meteor Lake) processors is set at 105 or 110 degrees Celsius depending on the version, and the company's upcoming Arrow Lake and Panther Lake CPUs will seemingly have the same maximum thermal junction temperature.
Tjunction max is the highest temperature a processor can reach before activating internal thermal controls to reduce power and limit temperature, which may cause performance loss. This limit varies by product: TJMax for laptop CPUs is usually set at 100 degrees Celsius, and TJMax for desktop CPUs is sometimes set at 110 degrees Celsius.
System builders should design systems to keep the processor below this threshold during heavy workloads to maximize performance, so increased TJMax is good. Notebooks based on Meteor Lake, Arrow Lake, and Panther Lake CPUs will sustain their maximum performance for extended periods, even under high loads (which is helpful for thin machines).
However, if a laptop CPU works at 100 to 105 degrees Celsius for a long time, notebooks may be uncomfortable because they will get hot. The increase in TJMax could mean that Intel is confident that its silicon will survive a temperature of 105 degrees Celsius and not degrade, which is good.
Separately, Jaykihn has published what he claims to be a blueprint of the Panther Lake-H and Panther Lake-U processor with a Compute, Graphics, PCD (platform connectivity hub), and two passive dies.
Panther Lake-U CPUs will purportedly sport up to four high-performance cores, four ultra-low-power cores, four Xe GPU clusters, and a PBP of 15W. In contrast, the more powerful Panther Lake-U processor will seemingly pack up to four high-performance cores, eight energy-efficient cores, four ultra-low-power cores, and 12 Xe graphics clusters. However, these CPUs will dissipate up to 25W. Because the image does not come from Intel, consider its contents with a grain of salt.
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Anton Shilov is a contributing writer at Tom’s Hardware. Over the past couple of decades, he has covered everything from CPUs and GPUs to supercomputers and from modern process technologies and latest fab tools to high-tech industry trends.
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Taslios If the "silicon degradation" issue on the Raptor lake chips is at all heat related... I don't see this as ending well for Intel.....Reply -
TerryLaze Admin said:Intel reportedly increases the TJMax temperature for Arrow Lake and Panther Lake processors to 105°C.
Intel’s next-gen desktop CPUs may run even hotter than current ones — chipmaker allegedly extends maximum temperature for Arrow Lake CPUs : Read moreHowever, if a laptop CPU works at 100 to 105 degrees Celsius for a long time, notebooks may be uncomfortable because they will get hot. The increase in TJMax could mean that Intel is confident that its silicon will survive a temperature of 105 degrees Celsius and not degrade, which is good.
It's not the CPU temp that causes a laptop, or any PC, to feel hot, it's the sustained amount of power that the cooling removes from the CPU that makes the environment hot, so leaving more of the heat on the CPU will let more of the heat stay within the case instead of escaping.
Of course higher tjmax would suggest higher TDP and in that case it would make the laptop hotter but higher TDP is not the only reason to increase Tjmax.
You think that you thought about it and they didn't?!Taslios said:If the "silicon degradation" issue on the Raptor lake chips is at all heat related... I don't see this as ending well for Intel..... -
hotaru251 intels gonna end up being the 1st cpu to req water cooling at this rate.Reply
they really do need to figure soemthing out and not have "just moar power" be the answer...
AMD figured it out w/ zen so intel could as they have much more resources to throw at the issue. -
Taslios @TerryLazeReply
No I suspect Engineers are very aware. However I also get the feeling that there are people making choices in Intel that are choosing to make acceptable risks to maintain benchmark leads wherever they can.
That Intel has yet to really make any sort of official statement in regards to what Level 1 Techs and game developers are saying about stability and degradation leads me to believe that either Legal, or Marketing is weighing their options.
Their Silence is letting arm chair reddit "experts" gather a lot of torches and pitchforks. -
Lucky_SLS hotaru251 said:intels gonna end up being the 1st cpu to req water cooling at this rate.
I think that distinction goes to AMD's FX 9590 -
vijosef We need radiators boosted with peltier cells, controlled by software so they don't grow ice.Reply -
TerryLaze hotaru251 said:intels gonna end up being the 1st cpu to req water cooling at this rate.
Also it's the official recommendation for the 5950x and 7950x.Lucky_SLS said:I think that distinction goes to AMD's FX 9590
And the 5900x and 7900x
https://www.amd.com/en/products/processors/desktops/ryzen/5000-series/amd-ryzen-9-5900x.htmlRecommended Cooler: Liquid cooler recommended for optimal performance
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ThomasKinsley It's going to be a good 1.5-3 years before we start seeing signs of Intel coming back with great chips. Until then, the Intel fans who buy now are holding the line much like those who bought the Phenom and Bulldozer series for AMD.Reply