US gov't pushing TSMC and Intel to create joint venture in the US: Report

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A Wall Street analyst's speculation suggests that the U.S. government is pushing Intel and TSMC to form a joint chip production venture, which would be owned by the two companies and operated by TSMC.

According to a Wall Street Journal report, the U.S. government wants TSMC to apply its experience with high-volume manufacturing using EUV lithography to Intel's process technologies. Another rumor cited by the Financial Times points to TSMC's accelerated Arizona Fab 21 complex expansion.

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Anton Shilov
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Anton Shilov is a contributing writer at Tom’s Hardware. Over the past couple of decades, he has covered everything from CPUs and GPUs to supercomputers and from modern process technologies and latest fab tools to high-tech industry trends.

  • bit_user
    Maybe TSMC would be willing to buy and operate Intel's fabs? That's about the only semi-realistic option that I can see that involves both companies.

    IMO, it'd be really sad if IFS effectively gets subsumed by TSMC, one way or another. Intel is a US company, TSMC isn't. No other leading edge fab is (i.e. Samsung and Rapidus). Well, there's Micron, but they only make DRAM and NAND.

    The article said:
    Also, Intel would retain its manufacturing capacity, aligning with the strategy set by former chief executive Pat Gelsinger.
    Not in a meaningful way. The whole point was to expand their fabs into something that would compete with TSMC, not get run by it. In this scenario, probably the bulk of their fab revenue would just go to TSMC, since it's almost certain what TSMC would do is just bring over their own nodes (maybe in addition to running Intel's existing nodes, but Intel probably doesn't need help with that).
    Reply
  • Gururu
    bit_user said:
    Maybe TSMC would be willing to buy and operate Intel's fabs? That's about the only semi-realistic option that I can see that involves both companies.

    IMO, it'd be really sad if IFS effectively gets subsumed by TSMC, one way or another. Intel is a US company, TSMC isn't. No other leading edge fab is (i.e. Samsung and Rapidus). Well, there's Micron, but they only make DRAM and NAND.


    Not in a meaningful way. The whole point was to expand their fabs into something that would compete with TSMC, not get run by it. In this scenario, probably the bulk of their fab revenue would just go to TSMC, since it's almost certain what TSMC would do is just bring over their own nodes (maybe in addition to running Intel's existing nodes, but Intel probably doesn't need help with that).
    There is absolutely no way the administration would let a foreign entity monopolize fabrication in the U.S.
    Reply
  • bit_user
    Gururu said:
    There is absolutely no way the administration would let a foreign entity monopolize fabrication in the U.S.
    Yeah, that's why I said only "semi-realistic".

    None of the other options seem any more realistic to me, as I don't expect TSMC has any interest in transferring its technology, IP, or expertise to anything owned by Intel.
    Reply
  • hotaru251
    doubt it'll happen..whats TSMC get out of it? helping a rival advance?
    Reply
  • Gururu
    Intel stock up 20% last few days, not sure if people are excited because of prospect of experienced TSMC coming aboard or purely on the idea that Intel is pretty much going to be making all government CPUs/NPUs during this administration.

    I think it's pretty clear, however it pans out, that the government (as would any for its own) wants Intel (or purely its fab), at this point in time, to be the go to supplier for national projects. Wall street speculation could simply be market manipulation and seems untethered to any reliable sources for now. I would be gobsmacked if TSMC took on a role beyond government managed consulting.
    Reply
  • bit_user
    Gururu said:
    ... Intel is pretty much going to be making all government CPUs/NPUs during this administration.
    As mentioned, TSMC has fabs in the USA. AMD is one of its customers, presumably for their Zen 5 CCDs which seem like they could be made there.

    Also, I wouldn't be so sure the government cares that much where the CPUs are made. Tariffs seem to be the main tool they want to use for coercion. A lot of government computing has already migrated to the cloud, and I'd guess they tend to just use the cheapest option there, even if it's ARM.

    IMO, it's mainly for military systems where they actually care in such detail about the entire supply chain.
    Reply
  • Gururu
    bit_user said:
    As mentioned, TSMC has fabs in the USA. AMD is one of its customers, presumably for their Zen 5 CCDs which seem like they could be made there.

    Also, I wouldn't be so sure the government cares that much where the CPUs are made. Tariffs seem to be the main tool they want to use for coercion. A lot of government computing has already migrated to the cloud, and I'd guess they tend to just use the cheapest option there, even if it's ARM.

    IMO, it's mainly for military systems where they actually care in such detail about the entire supply chain.
    It will be interesting to see if 'Made in America' continues to satisfy national interests when not 'Owned by America'.
    Reply
  • Pierce2623
    bit_user said:
    Yeah, that's why I said only "semi-realistic".

    None of the other options seem any more realistic to me, as I don't expect TSMC has any interest in transferring its technology, IP, or expertise to anything owned by Intel.
    The only way I’d see this cooperation working is if the joint venture was actually for a new node. Maybe either a much lower cost versions of leading edge nodes or just simply a new leading edge node. I have little doubt that TSMC and Intel both have enough engineering talent that a combination of their best people would almost certainly outperform anything either company can do all on its own.
    Reply
  • bit_user
    Pierce2623 said:
    The only way I’d see this cooperation working is if the joint venture was actually for a new node.
    Well, Intel and Samsung announced some sort of partnership, back in late October of last year. I wonder what's happening with that.
    https://www.trendforce.com/news/2024/10/22/news-intel-explores-foundry-alliance-with-samsung-in-high-level-talks/
    Reply
  • emerth
    Also... AMD is supplanting Intel as the biggest CPU supplier in the datacenter. But Washington has only ever heard of Intel. This is the gov't picking winners, and as is usually the case, picking wrong.
    Reply