LK-99 Research Continues, Paper Says Superconductivity Could be Possible
Bringing the issues of yield and synthesis to the forefront.
The scientific community may have largely settled on the matter of copper-doped lead apatite (LK-99) not being the room-temperature, ambient-pressure superconductor we need, but research groups are still finding reasons to look further. A new pre-print paper published by Arxiv reports on a quantum mechanics simulation exploring LK-99's possible superconductivity pathways. Like most theoretical papers on this side of the LK-99 announcement, the conclusion it draws is that it should be possible for LK-99 to be a room-temperature superconductor. Being a pre-print, the results have not yet been peer-reviewed.
Authored by Jun Li and Qi An with the Department of Materials Science and Engineering at Iowa State University, the research paper reports on how current experimental LK-99 synthesis can theoretically lead to two final end-products.
Due to the cooking process for LK-99 still being a relative mess (a result of the poor original documentation), LK-99 synthesis may result in two different arrangements of properties, mainly relating to how copper and oxygen atoms substitute the "base" lead atoms within lead apatite. In certain samples, high-symmetry arrangements of fundamental particles can leave open the space through which electrons can zip through unimpeded and without resistance (usually by bonding together in what are called Cooper pairs). However, due to a measure of uncertainty in how and where these symmetrical regions surface, they're usually interspersed within non-superconducting, low-symmetry zones. These low-symmetry zones create blockades to how freely electrons can move. Because they can't move without hitting other fundamental particles, electrons moving in low-symmetry zones tend to lose energy in the form of heat - leading to the usual semiconductivity we're already used to within materials such as silicon.
This particular behavior present in LK-99 synthesis shows how part of the issue in experimentally creating superconducting samples can be a result of extremely low yields of these superconductive symmetries. Too few of them, and the superconducting behavior doesn't emerge at all. This leads the study authors to posit that "the synthesis of LK-99 samples predominantly in the high-symmetry phase could pave the way to realizing room-temperature superconductors at ambient pressure."
The study's results - piled on with other theoretical studies that conclude in the same general direction - showcase just how difficult it sometimes is to cross the bridge between theory and practice. Theoretically, it seems LK-99 being a room-temperature, ambient-pressure superconductor is achievable. But practically, the current synthesis process (and superconductivity itself) could simply be still too poorly understood for us to be able to devise ways of improving yield - increasing the amount of useful, high-symmetry CU-doped lead apatite.
Whether or not there's a practical way to get to superconductivity within LK-99, it seems certain that a lot of human and computing power is still needed before we can actually achieve it.
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Francisco Pires is a freelance news writer for Tom's Hardware with a soft side for quantum computing.
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A Stoner I hope it works out. I always thought the rush to spike this research was premature and the desire for rapid confirmation was not such a good pathway. I am glad that people are still working on it and hope they put the appropriate amount of efforts into it.Reply -
elforeign Many of the articles concerning LK-99 mention the fact the original paper poorly described the baking process and so it's difficult to ascertain how the authors arrived at the material displaying room temperature superconductivity.Reply
Is this a matter of purposely obscuring the process they used for selfish interest? or is it that the authors didn't properly document the baking process and so just happened on a lucky sample that supposedly demonstrated superconductivity?
I'm wondering why none of the articles mention pressing the original authors for more details regarding how they arrived at the material leading to their claims?
As always, thanks for the continued updates on the LK-99 saga, hopefully more good is to come from better understanding this material. -
helper800 In many old posts about technology leaps, I always stated that materials science is the next great leap in non-quantum computing. If we could somehow get a room-temperature superconductor that we can use to make traces and complex components, we would have PCs without cooling being required. We could have CPUs with architectures unbound by thermal issues due to density. Think of CPUs with 16 chiplets and 4 IO dies at current densities that give off less than 5 watts of heat.Reply -
vanadiel007
That is a pipe dream with current computer models. Data has to be stored in RAM, which cannot be done using super conductivity because the memory cells have to store data and be switched on or off accordingly. And super conductivity for a CPU is not possible either, since transistors have to be made with doped material to function. While there are transistors that operate using super conductivity, they are very sensitive to low level magnetic radiation and for sure not easily integrated in an electronic device, let alone the NM scale of processors.helper800 said:In many old posts about technology leaps, I always stated that materials science is the next great leap in non-quantum computing. If we could somehow get a room-temperature superconductor that we can use to make traces and complex components, we would have PCs without cooling being required. We could have CPUs with architectures unbound by thermal issues due to density. Think of CPUs with 16 chiplets and 4 IO dies at current densities that give off less than 5 watts of heat. -
vanadiel007 elforeign said:Many of the articles concerning LK-99 mention the fact the original paper poorly described the baking process and so it's difficult to ascertain how the authors arrived at the material displaying room temperature superconductivity.
Is this a matter of purposely obscuring the process they used for selfish interest? or is it that the authors didn't properly document the baking process and so just happened on a lucky sample that supposedly demonstrated superconductivity?
I'm wondering why none of the articles mention pressing the original authors for more details regarding how they arrived at the material leading to their claims?
As always, thanks for the continued updates on the LK-99 saga, hopefully more good is to come from better understanding this material.
The fact that there is very little information or details on exactly how this material was originally made, should make it clear by now that this material should be taken with a very big grain of salt... -
helper800
I did not mean to say that if we had this now it would immediately be put to perfect use. I just mean to say that a room-temperature superconductor with the ability to be used for components would usher in a new leap of technology. I was partially aware of the issue with using superconductor materials for memory but was completely unaware of the issues using such materials with CPUs. Do you have a reference I can read, I am interested.vanadiel007 said:That is a pipe dream with current computer models. Data has to be stored in RAM, which cannot be done using super conductivity because the memory cells have to store data and be switched on or off accordingly. And super conductivity for a CPU is not possible either, since transistors have to be made with doped material to function. While there are transistors that operate using super conductivity, they are very sensitive to low level magnetic radiation and for sure not easily integrated in an electronic device, let alone the NM scale of processors. -
elforeign
Right, that's exactly my question, is it being intentionally withheld by the authors? Was it carelessness by the author in documenting the baking process? Or are they dumb and did not document it and then all of a sudden, they happened on this material showing superconductivity and having no way to retrace their steps?vanadiel007 said:The fact that there is very little information or details on exactly how this material was originally made, should make it clear by now that this material should be taken with a very big grain of salt... -
vanadiel007 elforeign said:Right, that's exactly my question, is it being intentionally withheld by the authors? Was it carelessness by the author in documenting the baking process? Or are they dumb and did not document it and then all of a sudden, they happened on this material showing superconductivity and having no way to retrace their steps?
I am thinking that the idea of making something as elusive as super conducting material in a kitchen sink using a microwave and some sort of random baking attempt just sounds to simple to be true. Research into super conducting material has been done in laboratories for many years.
I am sure that if it was as simple as cooking it up in the sink, it would have been "discovered" long time ago... -
vanadiel007 helper800 said:I did not mean to say that if we had this now it would immediately be put to perfect use. I just mean to say that a room-temperature superconductor with the ability to be used for components would usher in a new leap of technology. I was partially aware of the issue with using superconductor materials for memory but was completely unaware of the issues using such materials with CPUs. Do you have a reference I can read, I am interested.
This is an example of the challenges when it comes to transistors with zero electrical resistance: https://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1905/1905.13008.pdf -
helper800
So there could be benefits of a room-temperature superconductor if used in off-chip trace to the chip itself with the superconductor material. Significantly less heat would build up in the same area as the traditional chip which would increase energy efficiency and cooling requirements to a degree. It is also not that computers made with superconductors are impossible to make either, just that the CMOS-based technology of today cannot suddenly replace everything with a room-temperature superconductor material. Doping seems to be a process of adding small amounts of a few different materials in a uniform manner to make a semiconductor more or less conductive depending on the use of the product being made.vanadiel007 said:This is an example of the challenges when it comes to transistors with zero electrical resistance: https://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1905/1905.13008.pdf
Thanks for the reference, I will take a look at it when I have more time to delve into this stuff.