We tested Intel's flagship Lunar Lake Ultra 9 and it's slower than an Ultra 7 in multi-threaded work in the only laptop where it's currently for sale [Updated]

Asus Zenbook S14
(Image credit: Tom's Hardware)

Edit 10/4/2024 3:15am PT: Intel provided further clarification of performance targets, which we added below. 

We tested the new Asus Zenbook S14 with the Lunar Lake Core Ultra 9 288V processor, and surprisingly, we found that the Core Ultra 9 is slower than the Ultra 7 model in multi-threaded workloads, a condition that Intel says Asus will soon address with a BIOS fix. Our findings are interesting because Intel originally shipped the Asus Zenbook S14 to reviewers for its Lunar Lake launch, but the US press received the model with the lower-tier Core Ultra 7 258V processor, not the flagship Core Ultra 9 288V processor.

We also noticed a new type of behavior with the Ultra 200V series — the Skymont E-cores run at higher frequencies than the Lion Cove P-cores during heavily threaded work, indicating an exceptional amount of performance and efficiency from the new E-cores.

Intel gave us the chance to test the Core Ultra 9-equipped Zenbook S14, which was originally only sent to a few reviewers in Europe because the design is not currently available for purchase in the US. In fact, according to our checks, this is the sole Core Ultra 9-powered notebook available on the market. However, our findings indicate that Intel and Asus still have work to do on the firmware side to deliver the full performance of the Core Ultra 9. 

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Paul Alcorn
Editor-in-Chief

Paul Alcorn is the Editor-in-Chief for Tom's Hardware US. He also writes news and reviews on CPUs, storage, and enterprise hardware.

  • RosElks
    Kind of obvious what's happening; Intel did it on purpose so Cristiano can't have the so much craved 'battle of the benchmarks' :ROFLMAO:
    Reply
  • JRStern
    Appreciate you guys' work on all this, but it comes out so confusing. It's apparent that Intel themselves are massively uncertain what the E-core/P-core thing is all about. I'd *thought* it was about unloading IO onto E-cores so the P-cores didn't have to get interrupted, upsetting the pipeline and clearing the cache, and all, E-cores being much cheaper to build and run, and yes, I suppose they could run at different, even faster, clock speeds being simpler and all. Yet it never occurred to me that the chip could run different cores at different speeds at the same time - though maybe phones have been doing this for twenty years, so I'm a little behind on the details of some of this stuff, LOL, so was Intel.

    I also wondered just how heavy it would be for Windows to factor out what they wanted to run on an E-core versus a P-core, given different core counts of each, and base versus turbo, and yada yada. So much software development, even more than other areas of engineering, seem to consist of people, even the biggest companies, just bumbling around until they trip over something that works really well, but then six other people or projects or departments just won't accept it and keep running in other directions ...
    Reply
  • bit_user
    @PaulAlcorn , with release dates slipping and now this, perhaps 2024 is shaping up to be the year of the flubbed launch? Depends on how Arrow Lake's launch goes, but if that's also rough, then I'd say it's a bad sign for the industry.

    At least with AMD, I can sort of understand. They've broadened out their product portfolio a lot, in the past couple years. I think they might be getting stretched thin. In Intel's case, I have more trouble understanding why Lunar Lake (not unlike Meteor Lake before it) seems to be having a rough launch.
    Reply
  • Kamen Rider Blade
    bit_user said:
    At least with AMD, I can sort of understand. They've broadened out their product portfolio a lot, in the past couple years. I think they might be getting stretched thin. In Intel's case, I have more trouble understanding why Lunar Lake (not unlike Meteor Lake before it) seems to be having a rough launch.
    I think in AMD's case, it's Left-Hand not knowing what the Right-Hand is doing, and suddenly the Middle-Hand shows up and wants to do something.

    There are serious internal communications issue and standardization on BenchMark testing that needs to happen within AMD.

    Also, messaging to the public & reviewers needs to be adjusted to be concise, uniform, and properly tested before any information goes out.

    No more gas-lighting of reviewers over 1-2%, seriously, that's shameful.

    Also, no more releasing crap w/o having tested it themselves.

    They need to go Slower, Dot their I's, Cross their T's.

    This way they can end up going faster over-all, and not trip up on minor issues that get blown out of proportion and cause unnecessary head-aches.
    Reply
  • thestryker
    Greatly appreciate this update and look into the performance. I noticed that most of the laptops seemed to be trying to maximize performance putting lower chips into higher power modes so I'd just chalked it up to overall clock limits at the power levels. I'm curious if this is why there haven't been any releases with the 288V or if it was always to be a lower volume product/Asus got some sort of short term exclusivity.
    Reply
  • HideOut
    So the new 2xx core ultras have both less P cores AND less E cores? That makes sense. And while we are at it lets take out HT too...
    Reply
  • TheSecondPower
    JRStern said:
    Appreciate you guys' work on all this, but it comes out so confusing. It's apparent that Intel themselves are massively uncertain what the E-core/P-core thing is all about. I'd *thought* it was about unloading IO onto E-cores so the P-cores didn't have to get interrupted, upsetting the pipeline and clearing the cache, and all, E-cores being much cheaper to build and run, and yes, I suppose they could run at different, even faster, clock speeds being simpler and all. Yet it never occurred to me that the chip could run different cores at different speeds at the same time - though maybe phones have been doing this for twenty years, so I'm a little behind on the details of some of this stuff, LOL, so was Intel.

    I also wondered just how heavy it would be for Windows to factor out what they wanted to run on an E-core versus a P-core, given different core counts of each, and base versus turbo, and yada yada. So much software development, even more than other areas of engineering, seem to consist of people, even the biggest companies, just bumbling around until they trip over something that works really well, but then six other people or projects or departments just won't accept it and keep running in other directions ...
    I had originally heard of phones toggling between the little cores and the big cores and never using them both at the same time. But I don't think that's how phones work today and in hindsight, I don't think that's ever how the phone processors ever worked.

    I think that today little cores are primarily about having a lower cost core which can be used to supplement the big course during heavily threaded tasks when they wouldn't have been able to clock all that high anyway. In many cases they're also more power efficient than the big cores if the clock speed is low enough (big cores are more efficient if the clock speed is high enough). So in Lunar Lake, as the number of threads increases, the clock speed of all the cores goes down and eventually reaches the point where the little cores are operating more efficiently than the big cores, so the big cores clock down more than the little cores after this point.

    Intel has previously described Meteor Lake as having three classes of cores: LPE cores, E cores, and P cores. In all Intel products, P cores and E cores live on the same ring bus and share the same L3 cache. But LPE cores have no L3 cache and aren't on the ring bus. As far as I know, they only exist because Meteor Lake has multiple dies and the LPE cores are on the I/O and memory controller die so that CPU die can be shut down entirely during light work.

    It's also important to understand that in all Intel products a main thread is sent to the LPE cores, then the P cores, then the E cores (skipping any that don't exist). LPE cores are easy on the battery so start there, if the workload is too much send it to the P cores which are responsive, and if it doesn't need to be responsive move it to the E cores.

    Lunar Lake follows the same model, the only differences from Meteor Lake being that all the cores are on the same die, and there are no E cores. But I guess for convenience, the LPE cores are often called E cores on Lunar Lake. (There's no separate CPU die to power down when the LPE cores alone are used, but all the P cores, L3 cache, and ring bus can still be turned off.)
    Reply
  • usertests
    bit_user said:
    @PaulAlcorn , with release dates slipping and now this, perhaps 2024 is shaping up to be the year of the flubbed launch? Depends on how Arrow Lake's launch goes, but if that's also rough, then I'd say it's a bad sign for the industry.
    We also have port strikes and an impending quartz shortage. Maybe 2025 will be worse.
    Reply
  • JRStern
    TheSecondPower said:
    ...

    Lunar Lake follows the same model, the only differences from Meteor Lake being that all the cores are on the same die, and there are no E cores. But I guess for convenience, the LPE cores are often called E cores on Lunar Lake. (There's no separate CPU die to power down when the LPE cores alone are used, but all the P cores, L3 cache, and ring bus can still be turned off.)
    Interesting. Scary. Moving a thread from processor to processor ... well, but my guess is it probably doesn't, really, maybe an LPE core is dedicated to OS queue management, so the task and the LPE sees it exists and is queued but not even executing, but the first attempt to execute it is on a P-core. Now, that does require you can assume it needs a P-core as opposed to letting it demonstrate it first on an E-core, but I'd think the general class of a job is going to be known in advance, or maybe you can set some flags to have it treated one way or another.

    As I said before, making proper use of these new toys/tools, is itself a challenge, just as this article says.
    Reply
  • rluker5
    I don't like how Best Buy is obfuscating the CPU model number by calling them Core Ultra series 1 or Core Ultra series 2 and not listing the included CPU by name. There is a pretty big difference.
    Reply