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AMD Questions Nvidia Kepler's DirectX 11.1 Support

By - Source: AMD | B 53 comments

The latest blog from AMD points out that its Graphics Core Next (GCN) Architecture has full support for DirectX 11.1, unlike Nvidia's Kepler architecture.

On Friday David Nalasco, Senior Technical Marketing Manager of AMD's Product Group, updated the AMD Game Blog with an argument that AMD offers full DirectX 11.1 support while Nvidia's Kepler GPU does not. Nvidia has since declined to comment on the post, but has previously stated that Kepler supports the key 11.1 features that are useful for gaming.

Up until now, most of what we've heard about Windows 8 has been the new Modern UI, and the seemingly lackluster market response. We've seen the introduction of new form factors that take advantage of the touchy new OS, and we've even seen the launch of Microsoft's own ARM-based tablet as part of its assault on Apple and Google.

What we generally don't hear about is what's behind the new interface and desktop wallpaper as Nalasco points out. "As with every major iteration of Windows, the lead up to its launch was filled with months, even years, of preparation by hardware and software vendors alike," Nalasco wrote. "While many industry followers focused attention on the rejigged user interface, the more important changes, at least from the perspective of a graphics hardware company like AMD, were 'under the hood'."

This is where he jumps into the DirectX 11.1 topic, saying that the company worked closely with Microsoft as DirectX 11.1 was refined and rolled out. AMD "enthusiastically embraced all of the changes" and made them a part of AMD's GCN architecture ahead of Windows 8's commercial release, he said.

"As with previous iterations, DirectX 11.1 is intended to support a wide range of different GPU architectures with different capabilities," Nalasco said. "While this does ensure broader support for the standard, it also leaves the door open for confusion. A good example of this is the recent issue regarding Nvidia’s Kepler-based products and whether they do in fact support DirectX 11.1."

He goes on to point out that by Nvidia's own admission, Kepler does not include all aspects of DirectX 11.1 – it doesn't support 4 out of 10 key technologies comprising Feature Level 11_1 – yet Nvidia previously claimed that the architecture does in fact support the platform. "So, what exactly happened?" he asked.

To defend his case, Nalasco explains what the Feature Level aspect of DirectX 11 is all about. "While every new version of DirectX adds support for new features, it also has to maintain support for older, less capable hardware," he said. "Since the release of DirectX 11, this has been managed using 'feature level' terminology.  A feature level determines a particular set of features from a given DirectX version that a GPU design can support.  If the feature level of a GPU matches the DirectX version it supports, that generally means all of the features of that version are available, while lower feature levels indicate only a subset of the features are exposed."

He goes on to offer an example of how feature levels can add confusion. "DirectX 11.1 comprises Feature Level 11_0 and Feature Level 11_1," he said. "This means that even though a GPU claims to support DirectX 11.1, it may in fact only support Feature Level 11_0, or, as in the case of Nvidia’s Kepler GPUs, only partially support Feature Level 11_1."

Naturally this is where AMD starts promoting its Graphics Core Next (GCN) Architecture which is available in AMD Radeon HD 7700, HD 7800 and HD 7900 Series graphics, along with AMD FirePro W series cards. GCN provides "complete" support for DirectX 11.1 Feature Level 11_1 in Windows 8, he said, including Target Independent Rasterization, UAV improvements and Sum of Absolute Differences, the latter of which exposes new shader instructions on the GPU that can massively accelerate a wide range of image processing tasks.

To read the full post, head here.

 

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  • 14 Hide
    dweezled , December 18, 2012 12:32 PM
    So let's get this straight: Nvidia says it supports the DX 11.1 features that are "useful for gaming", not all DX 11.1 features and AMD says it supports all DX 11.1 features. Assuming both companies are correct with their statements the question remains do the missing DX 11.1 features from Nvidia make a difference for gaming or not? This article doesn't answer the question. In other words does "target indpendent rasterization", "UAV", "Sum of Absolute Differences" make any difference in gaming? If so seems like AMD would have an advantage.
  • 13 Hide
    alvine , December 18, 2012 12:20 PM
    I'm happy to hear that since I have a 7970, but I'm not getting windows 8 for sure
  • 10 Hide
    jonjonjon , December 18, 2012 3:23 PM
    i love all the nvidia fans. "no games use dx11.1 so it doesn't matter". maybe not now but what about in 6 months or a year. sure you can buy a gtx 780 in 6 months for $500+ but there is really no excuse for a gtx 6XX card that came out a couple months ago to not fully support dx11.1. seems pretty lame. this is the kind of thing i would usually expect from amd. also before you call me an amd fanboy i have no allegiance to either company. i buy whatever company/card has the best price/performance at the time.
Other Comments
  • 5 Hide
    wanderer11 , December 18, 2012 12:08 PM
    Most games are still DX9. Does it really matter if they do/don't support DX11.1?
  • 4 Hide
    JOSHSKORN , December 18, 2012 12:14 PM
    wanderer11Most games are still DX9. Does it really matter if they do/don't support DX11.1?

    You're most likely right. We won't see anything much better until the new consoles come out. By that time, we may have DX 12 and then, devs will finally start focusing much more on DX11 or 11.1.
  • 6 Hide
    siman0 , December 18, 2012 12:15 PM
    um most right no have a DX10 compatible card as par steam.
  • 13 Hide
    alvine , December 18, 2012 12:20 PM
    I'm happy to hear that since I have a 7970, but I'm not getting windows 8 for sure
  • 8 Hide
    JJ1217 , December 18, 2012 12:22 PM
    Until DX 11.1 is put on Windows 7 I can't foresee its features used in future games. Just like catering for consoles game developers will cater for its largest potential market.
  • 0 Hide
    phishy714 , December 18, 2012 12:27 PM
    "ALSO:

    The feature the color RED. It is MUCH cooler than the dumb color green that nvidia is sporting!!!"

    DX11.1 vs DX11 is about as relevant as the above statement. You have a great foothold in the GPU department AMD, don't screw it up like the advertising for your bulldozer cpu's did.
  • 14 Hide
    dweezled , December 18, 2012 12:32 PM
    So let's get this straight: Nvidia says it supports the DX 11.1 features that are "useful for gaming", not all DX 11.1 features and AMD says it supports all DX 11.1 features. Assuming both companies are correct with their statements the question remains do the missing DX 11.1 features from Nvidia make a difference for gaming or not? This article doesn't answer the question. In other words does "target indpendent rasterization", "UAV", "Sum of Absolute Differences" make any difference in gaming? If so seems like AMD would have an advantage.
  • 4 Hide
    mayankleoboy1 , December 18, 2012 12:33 PM
    Quote:
    including Target Independent Rasterization, UAV improvements and Sum of Absolute Differences,


    Most of these are not used in games at all. Most of it is used in Direct2D things.
  • 5 Hide
    Wisecracker , December 18, 2012 12:45 PM

    Seems to me AMD is intent on serving (and pushing) the furtherance of OpenCL and the advances of Direct Compute in 11.1.

    It's understandable, and good for AMD, as stream processing and physics acceleration would likely gain a healthy boost from API advances and the GCN arch.

    I suspect there are gains to be realized for nVidia, too, but Kepler was a step back in the compute department. Whether this is due to their focus on their own stuff, physics, CUDA, etc. ... Who knows?

  • 3 Hide
    Old_Fogie_Late_Bloomer , December 18, 2012 12:53 PM
    Honestly, I'll care when DirectX 11.1 runs on Windows 7, and not before.
  • 0 Hide
    DjEaZy , December 18, 2012 12:58 PM
    ... and yet Borderlands 2 is DX9 32Bit... but with nVidias Physx... i do think, that AMD should put more effort in to working together with all major game engine developers...
  • -2 Hide
    tomfreak , December 18, 2012 1:08 PM
    by the time the game make full use DX11.1, we will need something like Radeon HD9000 or Geforce GTX900 series as minimum requirement. right now we are still DX9 and barely touch DX10/11 features.
  • 0 Hide
    atikkur , December 18, 2012 1:22 PM
    yea.. you have full dx11.1 support but if nobody is making software or games with all the features mentioned are the same story as not having the support.

    honestly.. when we seeing games using full tesselation done right.. not to mention the little 0.1 extensions. by the time it important... dx12 is arround.
  • 3 Hide
    Gman450 , December 18, 2012 1:23 PM
    I don't think we'll see too many DX10 only titles out there. Probably the jump would be from DX9 to DX11.
  • 3 Hide
    Shin-san , December 18, 2012 1:30 PM
    What a pain for programmers. Hopefully if you ask nVidia drivers if they support DirectX 11.1 fully (Yep, DirectX does this), the drivers won't say "yes"
  • 6 Hide
    Sakkura , December 18, 2012 1:42 PM
    Tomfreakby the time the game make full use DX11.1, we will need something like Radeon HD9000 or Geforce GTX900 series as minimum requirement. right now we are still DX9 and barely touch DX10/11 features.

    Not necessarily. Using a newer version of DX can achieve similar results with a reduced computational burden. For example, running World of Warcraft in DX11 mode increases the framerate.

    The reason enabling a later DX version in many games reduces the framerate is that the games make use of new features to increase the detail level beyond what is even possible with earlier DX versions (regardless of hardware performance).

    http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/world-of-warcraft-cataclysm-directx-11-performance,2793-7.html
  • 3 Hide
    bluekoala , December 18, 2012 1:55 PM
    I wish all games used OpenGL, the problem with DX is that it's vendor locked.
  • 7 Hide
    aredeecee , December 18, 2012 1:58 PM
    Thank you AMD for keeping the game real and competitive.
  • -7 Hide
    juanc , December 18, 2012 2:23 PM
    This is the sad second time that nVidia kicks AMD in the groin. First time was when MS decided to put some specific MMU stuff in DirectX 10, nVidia did nothing about it, ATI/AMD spent a lot of effort doing it, and when DX10 came out, MS removed the MMU features from it since nVidia couldn't do it.

    It's not about having the latest... it's about market strategy.
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