Framework moves into desktops, 2-in-1 laptops at 'Second Gen' event

Framework Desktop in blacklight.
(Image credit: Framework)
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Framework is expanding its laptop lineup and getting into desktops. In an event announcing what the company is calling its "second-gen" products, it detailed three new computers: an updated Framework Laptop 13 with AMD Ryzen AI 300, a 4.5-liter Mini-ITX desktop powered by Ryzen AI Max, and a colorful, convertible Framework Laptop 12 designed with students in mind. Framework refers to the latter as a "defining product for us."

It's a large expansion of Framework's existing lineup, which until today consisted of two clamshell notebooks: the Framework Laptop 13 and 16.

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Andrew E. Freedman
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Andrew E. Freedman is a senior editor at Tom's Hardware focusing on laptops, desktops and gaming. He also keeps up with the latest news. A lover of all things gaming and tech, his previous work has shown up in Tom's Guide, Laptop Mag, Kotaku, PCMag and Complex, among others. Follow him on Threads @FreedmanAE and BlueSky @andrewfreedman.net. You can send him tips on Signal: andrewfreedman.01

  • Notton
    oh hey look, it's a Ryzen 395+ mITX mobo that everyone and their moms have been nagging about.
    I gotta admit, that 4.5L total package size is hard to beat. It looks similar to a Velka 3.

    The lack of LPCAMM2 is a bummer, but AMD's top engineer said it couldn't be done, so looks like we're stuck with soldered on RAM.
    -lErGZZgUbY
    Reply
  • bit_user
    The article said:
    The mainboard on its own will be available from $799. Pre-orders are open now, and Framework expects to ship sometime in Q3.
    Out of curiosity, does the motherboard support a standard heatsink, by any chance? I doubt it - and that's the main issue I have with a lot of these mini-ITX boards based on laptop CPUs (which seem to be more common in Asian markets, BTW).

    I also wonder if you can swap out that 120 mm CPU fan for a 140 mm or 150 mm fan, which I also doubt.

    If they were serious about customizability, they'd have really tried to give us more flexibility in cooling that beastly APU. Also, a full-length PCIe slot would've been nice, even though I'm sure it would've had no more than x8 connectivity.
    Reply
  • thestryker
    bit_user said:
    Out of curiosity, does the motherboard support a standard heatsink, by any chance? I doubt it - and that's the main issue I have with a lot of these mini-ITX boards based on laptop CPUs (which seem to be more common in Asian markets, BTW).
    I'd be really curious if the memory needs to be cooled, because if so I'm not sure how good a regular cooler would be for this. You can see the memory layout in the first picture and no matter how you mount a standard cooler something would be uncovered.

    At first glance I thought maybe LGA 1700 mount compatibility, but the top to bottom appears to be slightly longer than side to side so most likely proprietary. Their cooler has 6 heatpipes, measures 123.75 x 123.15 x 54.58mm and is intended to use a full sized 120mm fan so I don't think cooling will be an issue. They say nothing about the cooler mounting on the mainboard product page: https://frame.work/products/desktop-mainboard-amd-ai-max300?v=FRAMBM0002
    Reply
  • TheSecondPower
    LPCAMM exists but not even Framework can get it working with Strix Halo. That is extremely disappointing and moves Strix Halo from the most interesting mobile processor I've ever seen to one I will probably pass up.
    Reply
  • DS426
    "The Framework Desktop is a 4.5L Mini-ITX machine using AMD's Ryzen AI Max "Strix Halo" chips with Radeon 8060S graphics. While this is a mobile chip, Framework says putting it in a desktop chassis gets it to 120W sustained power and 140W boost "while staying quiet and cool." Framework says this should allow 1440p gaming on intense titles, as well as workstation-class projects and local AI."

    Lol, I mean, Strix Halo isn't REALLY a mobile chip. Is it going into "mobile" devices? Yeah. Where will it really shine? mITX and NUCs.

    I'm not one to get that bummed out about it not having LPCAMM2 -- just is what it is. Being able to game at 1440p with good fps on an APU is still crazy to me. Some called it way back when but this is probably AMD's end-game as far as mainstream graphics (mid-end gaming GPU's that is) and certainly budget gaming graphics go. I mean, it's scaled up to 120W, dual CCD's, and a big ol' GPU die, so yes, AMD just needs to keep the successor models fed in terms of memory using LPCAMM2 in the future.
    Reply
  • bit_user
    TheSecondPower said:
    LPCAMM exists but not even Framework can get it working with Strix Halo. That is extremely disappointing and moves Strix Halo from the most interesting mobile processor I've ever seen to one I will probably pass up.
    Why? Do you really expect you'd upgrade to more? I also wonder what the prospects are for having any higher capacity LPDDR5X in the next few years.

    I share your dislike of soldered-down RAM. However, I'm willing to accept it, in exchange for performance benefits that wouldn't otherwise be possible. That presumes the pricing is reasonable enough that I can buy as much as I expect I'll need.

    BTW, what I expect will happen in the next 5 years or so is that the market will transition to mostly on-package memory and your only option for expansion will be via CXL.
    Reply
  • SocDriver
    I just want the motherboard as I already have an idea of what case I want to put in that is super compact.
    Reply
  • thestryker
    TheSecondPower said:
    LPCAMM exists but not even Framework can get it working with Strix Halo.
    I think this is the wrong takeaway from what they said. Strix Halo would require two CAMM2 sockets equal distance from the SoC. Now consider that they're doing an ITX board and ask yourself where they would put them.
    TheSecondPower said:
    That is extremely disappointing and moves Strix Halo from the most interesting mobile processor I've ever seen to one I will probably pass up.
    I'm pretty sure 64GB is the highest capacity LPCAMM goes since they're limited on the number of packages. That means 128GB would be the most you'd likely see any time soon which matches the highest SKU. Sure it's bad from the standpoint of you have to buy the SKU that matches your expected maximum needed now, but it's not crippling maximum capacity like on package with LNL did.
    Reply
  • Notton
    thestryker said:
    I'd be really curious if the memory needs to be cooled, because if so I'm not sure how good a regular cooler would be for this. You can see the memory layout in the first picture and no matter how you mount a standard cooler something would be uncovered.
    Yeah, if you look at the heatsink, it has wings over the memory. It also has thermal pads covering the RAM, just like in a GPU.
    I'd guess the mounting hole spacing is proprietary due to the 8 RAM chips taking up a bunch of room.
    It even has extra wings and mounting points to cover the VRM between the CPU and PCIe slot.
    It looks like it uses 6 screws to mount.
    thestryker said:
    I think this is the wrong takeaway from what they said. Strix Halo would require two CAMM2 sockets equal distance from the SoC. Now consider that they're doing an ITX board and ask yourself where they would put them.
    I am guessing it wasn't possible to stick 2x LPCAMM in there due to the way the traces come out from the CPU.
    Instead of 4+4 chips on the opposite ends like a threadripper, it's 2+4+2 bracketing a single side making for a poor signal path without soldered on memory.
    Reply
  • usertests
    TheSecondPower said:
    LPCAMM exists but not even Framework can get it working with Strix Halo. That is extremely disappointing and moves Strix Halo from the most interesting mobile processor I've ever seen to one I will probably pass up.
    You have to learn to live with it, if the price is right. $2k for the 16-core chip and 128 GB is certainly moving in the right direction.
    bit_user said:
    Why? Do you really expect you'd upgrade to more? I also wonder what the prospects are for having any higher capacity LPDDR5X in the next few years.
    Strix Halo starts with 32 GB, which is a bit low considering it's shared. Some AI applications might be fine with the 8-core, 32 CU model and 128 GB even though that will be a rare or non-existent pairing. Barebones could help you get to the amount of RAM you want, and might help you save some money.

    On the capacity, it's unclear to me why 48 or 96 GB couldn't be done, or even 192-256 GB instead of the apparent 128 GB limit. I'm pretty sure there are 24 GB LPDDR5X packages on the market which could be used to get to 192 GB. 128 GB should be sufficient for the 70B LLMs though.
    Reply