Supercomputing icon warns that China could have the world's fastest supercomputers

Tianhe
(Image credit: Top500.org/News.cn)

Although the Frontier supercomputer, located at Oak Ridge National Laboratory, is considered the fastest supercomputer in the world because it tops the global Top500 list, it may not be the de facto leader. Some scientific papers suggest that Chinese supercomputers, the Sunway and Tianhe-3, may surpass Frontier in performance, believes Jack Dongarra, a co-founder of Top 500. 

"The Chinese have machines that are faster," Dongarra told the Wall Street Journal. "They just have not submitted the results." 

In recent years, China's government and scientists have become secretive and no longer disclose domestic achievements in the field of supercomputing because they don't want the U.S. government to make it harder for them to obtain high-performance hardware. 

China has better supercomputers than in the U.S.?

The latest version of the Top 500 list was released last month. Despite the latest rankings indicating that the three fastest supercomputers are in the U.S., there is a strong belief that China possesses more powerful machines. According to Dongarra, China has faster supercomputers but has not submitted their results due to concerns over further U.S. restrictions. 

Some experts from the U.S. believe that the Sunway machine has 39 million cores, which is quadruple that of Frontier, which may mean that this machine could be more powerful than the Frontier supercomputer from ORNL. Those processors powering the Sunway supercomputer may be made using an outdated process technology and may not be as energy efficient as modern American CPUs. However, brute force is brute force, and for China, economic or power efficiency may not really matter as it also considers supercomputers a national security matter. 

China dominated the Top500 list by 2017, with 202 machines compared to 143 from the U.S. Then the U.S. restricted Chinese access to Intel processors and other U.S. hardware in 2015, followed by broader export restrictions under the Trump administration in 2019, which have been tightened further by the Biden administration in 2022. As a result, Chinese participation in the Top500 list dwindled, to some degree because access of Chinese entities to the latest hardware got harder and to some degree because Chinese scientists no longer want to share details about their machines with anyone. 

Dongarra told the WSJ that Chinese colleagues told him they were not permitted to submit information about their supercomputers, leading to reduced data sharing with Top500 in particular and with other scientific forums in general. However, based on his conversation with his colleagues, he believes Chinese scientists have very fast machines that surpass the capabilities of America's best supercomputers. 

China has its own HPC Top100 list of supercomputers, and Dongarra believes this list omits some of China's top supercomputers. The number one machine on the latest Top100 and several others is described only in general terms without specifying its name or operating institution. Last December, a month after the latest list was published, the National Supercomputing Center in Guangzhou unveiled a machine named Tianhe Xingyi, claiming it significantly outperformed the earlier Tianhe-2 model from the Milky Way series and that machine could be faster than ORNL's Frontier.

On the one hand, this means that American and Chinese scientists will no longer collaborate on supercomputers, creating a divide that Western scientists believe will hinder technological development. Nations will work on different projects or similar projects, albeit on their own. On the other hand, this means that nobody outside China knows the performance of Chinese supercomputers.  

This growing secrecy poses challenges for the U.S. in determining whether it or China possesses faster supercomputers, a question deemed crucial for national security. Supercomputers play a pivotal role in the U.S.-China technological rivalry, as the nation with superior machines gains an edge in developing advanced military technology, including nuclear weapons. Jimmy Goodrich, a senior adviser at the Rand Corporation, told WSJ that even a slight supercomputing advantage can significantly impact military capabilities.

Anton Shilov
Contributing Writer

Anton Shilov is a contributing writer at Tom’s Hardware. Over the past couple of decades, he has covered everything from CPUs and GPUs to supercomputers and from modern process technologies and latest fab tools to high-tech industry trends.

  • ex_bubblehead
    A preemptive warning to all. Keep politics of ANY kind out of the conversation. Anyone that goes there will find themselves locked out of the thread or worse.
    Reply
  • foogoo
    Good for them if they do. They also may or may not have a Time Machine and an army of Sasquatch riding unicorns I read.
    Reply
  • bit_user
    The phrase "Supercomputing Icon" in the headline immediately had me thinking like...

    Heh, but I knew it must be Jack Dongarra. He seems to pop up in the news quite regularly.
    Reply
  • COLGeek
    What is amusing is how something like this gets folks riled up. These "rankings" change all the time and it generates competition and innovation.

    Instead of getting so parochial, tech enthusiasts and professionals should be excited to see how these technologies will eventually enter the mainstream.
    Reply
  • dazzleworth
    The sound of backfiring....
    Sounds pretty good
    Reply
  • bit_user
    COLGeek said:
    tech enthusiasts and professionals should be excited to see how these technologies will eventually enter the mainstream.
    Except, instead of giving us NVLink and InfinityFabric links, Nvidia and AMD have gone the opposite direction and removed SLI-like capabilities from consumer GPUs.
    : (
    Also, we no longer get consumer GPUs with HBM or fp64, now that they've both forked their GPU architectures into separate HPC/AI and consumer product lines.

    Let's not even get started on networking. Supercomputers are using technologies like infiniband, but even 10 Gig Ethernet still isn't quite mainstream (finally getting there?).

    HPC and datacenter tech is cool to read about, but it's becoming increasingly specialized and it feels like the trickle-down effect is breaking down. Even the recent server SSD form factors are desktop-unfriendly, like E1 and E3 families, which limits opportunities to snag some good ebay deals on used ones.

    Pretty much the only area where I'm holding out hope for a datacenter technology to trickle down is CXL.
    Reply
  • COLGeek
    bit_user said:
    Except, instead of giving us NVLink and InfinityFabric links, Nvidia and AMD have gone the opposite direction and removed SLI-like capabilities from consumer GPUs.
    : (
    Also, we no longer get consumer GPUs with HBM or fp64, now that they've both forked their GPU architectures into separate HPC/AI and consumer product lines.

    Let's not even get started on networking. Supercomputers are using technologies like infiniband, but even 10 Gig Ethernet still isn't quite mainstream (finally getting there?).

    HPC and datacenter tech is cool to read about, but it's becoming increasingly specialized and it feels like the trickle-down effect is breaking down. Even the recent server SSD form factors are desktop-unfriendly, like E1 and E3 families, which limits opportunities to snag some good ebay deals on used ones.

    Pretty much the only area where I'm holding out hope for a datacenter technology to trickle down is CXL.
    SLI/Crossfire was a miss in the end and the market didn't really adopt it, else it would have continued to evolve.

    Not all tech will make it to the mainstream, as you pointed it out. Nor should it for most users. The need simply isn't there or it isn't financially suitable for a consumer market.
    Reply
  • bit_user
    COLGeek said:
    SLI/Crossfire was a miss in the end and the market didn't really adopt it, else it would have continued to evolve.

    Not all tech will make it to the mainstream, as you pointed it out. Nor should it for most users. The need simply isn't there or it isn't financially suitable for a consumer market.
    Yes, I agree with you on most points.

    IMO, the main exceptions are:
    Datacenter SSDs - last year, I got a sweet deal on a new Intel/Solidigm U.2 2.5" SSD, which is a great form factor because they run hot and drive cages tend to be well-ventilated. Because the bottom had fallen out of the SSD market, I got that new 4 TB PCIe 4.0 drive for about $300 from an authorized dealer with 5-year warranty!
    GPUs with good fp64 performance. The 5-year-old, $700 Radeon VII had almost 2x the fp64 TFLOPS and about the same memory bandwidth as both the RX 7900XTX and RTX 4090! I know of some people who actually made use of it and are quite disappointed not to have anything comparable among newer consumer GPUs.
    As for the rest, we're pretty much talking about a niche within a niche who'd have any real sort of home use for them. I'm not too worried about them.
    Reply
  • jp7189
    bit_user said:
    Except, instead of giving us NVLink and InfinityFabric links, Nvidia and AMD have gone the opposite direction and removed SLI-like capabilities from consumer GPUs.
    : (
    Also, we no longer get consumer GPUs with HBM or fp64, now that they've both forked their GPU architectures into separate HPC/AI and consumer product lines.

    Let's not even get started on networking. Supercomputers are using technologies like infiniband, but even 10 Gig Ethernet still isn't quite mainstream (finally getting there?).

    HPC and datacenter tech is cool to read about, but it's becoming increasingly specialized and it feels like the trickle-down effect is breaking down. Even the recent server SSD form factors are desktop-unfriendly, like E1 and E3 families, which limits opportunities to snag some good ebay deals on used ones.

    Pretty much the only area where I'm holding out hope for a datacenter technology to trickle down is CXL.
    I agree with you, and yet it seems to me fullsize desktop PCs are becoming niche. Following the pandemic, businesses went laptop to support work from home where they previously might have used desktops. Even most desktops are small form factors that are more akin to laptops without screens than they are to real desktops.
    Reply