AMD Phoenix Desktop APUs Are Almost Here, According To AGESA Update

AMD
(Image credit: AMD)

As reported by HXL on X (Twitter), Asus has begun to drop BIOS updates for its AMD AM5 motherboards featuring Team Red's latest AGESA microcode update, version PI 1.0.8.0. According to Asus, the new microcode patch supports "upcoming" CPUs, confirming that AMD is adding more Ryzen CPUs to the AM5 platform. The question is, what CPUs?

It's highly doubtful AMD's Ryzen 8000 CPUs are coming already. Still, there's a good chance this new microcode update adds support for AMD's rumored Ryzen 7000 series APUs codenamed Phoenix or Phoenix 2, and Ryzen 8000 series APUs codenamed Hawk Point. Since Ryzen 7000's release, no dedicated APU offerings, like past generations, offer high-performance integrated graphics capabilities.

Phoenix 2 rumoredly may be a new flavor of AMD's current Ryzen 7040 series Phoenix CPUs, featuring big Zen 4 cores and little Zen 4c cores — similar to Intel's hybrid architectures. Phoenix 2's design targets budget-friendly laptops, sporting a maximum core configuration of six (at least in its known mobile format). Phoenix, however, will stay the way it is, targeting mid-range and higher-end thin-and-light notebooks with a peak of up to eight Zen 4 cores.

If Phoenix 2 comes to AM5 and features an adaptation to a desktop environment, it will represent the first hybrid architecture to arrive on the desktop for AMD, sporting two sets of cores. If it comes with the same core limitations as its mobile counterpart, we could see it offered in the form of Ryzen 5 or Ryzen 3 SKUs featuring entry-level pricing.

A more likely candidate for AMD's upcoming AM5 CPUs is Hawk Point, which should take up the Ryzen 8000 series nomenclature. But, before you get your hopes up, Hawk Point is not expected to pack Zen 5 cores but will feature the same Zen 4 cores as current Ryzen 7000 CPUs. The rumor mill believes Hawk Point will be a refreshed variant of AMD's mobile Phoenix Ryzen 7040 CPUs that will focus on upgrading the chip's integrated graphics chip over anything else.

While current Ryzen 7040 chips utilize AMD's latest RDNA 3 architecture, Hawk Point reportedly comes with AMD's RDNA 3.5 architecture. Specs and performance details about RDNA 3.5 are completely scarce at this point. Still, it is obvious to assume this "mid-cycle refresh" for RDNA 3 will presumably improve the performance or efficiency of AMD's RDNA 3 iGPs like the Radeon 780M. Rumors believe Hawk Point will pack up to 12 CUs, just like the outgoing Ryzen Z1 Extreme and Radeon 780M iGP.

Hawk Point is a more likely candidate for AM5 because no details suggest it will include Zen 4c cores. Including more petite Zen 4 cores is not impossible, but Hawk Point will likely ship with the same core configurations as AMD's outgoing Ryzen 7040 Phoenix CPUs. It would make a lot more sense in a desktop environment that priorities performance beyond anything else.

Now that Asus has dropped official BIOS updates featuring the new AM5 microcode, we should see AMD announcing new Ryzen 7000/8000 APUs very soon.

Aaron Klotz
Contributing Writer

Aaron Klotz is a contributing writer for Tom’s Hardware, covering news related to computer hardware such as CPUs, and graphics cards.

  • Alvar "Miles" Udell
    Until AMD integrates HBM into APUs to allow them to not be handicapped by system RAM, I'm not getting excited about them.
    Reply
  • hotaru.hino
    Alvar Miles Udell said:
    Until AMD integrates HBM into APUs to allow them to not be handicapped by system RAM, I'm not getting excited about them.
    That would likely make the APU more expensive than what the intended market is for these things.

    I feel like APUs are one of those things where PC gamers are all "I'll buy one when it actually has decent gaming performance" and when push comes to shove, they don't actually buy it. Like the i7-8809G. Then again I guess PC gamers wanted that thing as a standalone product.
    Reply
  • Alvar "Miles" Udell
    hotaru.hino said:
    That would likely make the APU more expensive than what the intended market is for these things.

    I feel like APUs are one of those things where PC gamers are all "I'll buy one when it actually has decent gaming performance" and when push comes to shove, they don't actually buy it. Like the i7-8809G. Then again I guess PC gamers wanted that thing as a standalone product.

    While that may have been true in 2018, given that dGPUs are around the $250 mark (for the 3050) these days, an APU with on board HBM fills a price gap.
    Reply
  • hotaru.hino
    Alvar Miles Udell said:
    While that may have been true in 2018, given that dGPUs are around the $250 mark (for the 3050) these days, an APU with on board HBM fills a price gap.
    The cost of a Ryzen 5700G launched at $360. Though to be fair, it dropped to around $250 after a year, then down to $180 another year after that.

    But we don't know what the market will be like. So let's assume AMD ships out a Phoenix desktop Ryzen 7 APU at the same price and it remains for a good bit. Adding HBM would dramatically add to the cost of the processor since HBM, as far as I can tell, is still really expensive. On top of this, you'd need to add another memory controller to the CPU and there's added complexity on the packaging to interface between the two.

    So my WAG if you were to add say 4GB of HBM based VRAM would probably add another $100-$150 to the APU. Given this delta, you may as well save another $100-$150 and get a decent video card. You'd get close to the RX 7600 and it would put the smack down on the Phoenix iGPU.

    EDIT: I wanted to see if I could make any educated guesses as to how well a 12CU RDNA3 GPU would perform if given better RAM. But unfortunately, the only card I could think of in recent memory that has vastly different memory but the same GPU core is the GT 1030. And while TechSpot benchmarked the DDR4 version and found it to perform half as good as the GDDR5 version, it got me thinking: what if the GT 1030 was designed with the higher bandwidth from the start? Plus if the DDR4 version was using the same DDR4 DRAM that you plug into a RAM slot, that's a problem since system RAM isn't designed in the same way as GDDR RAM is.

    But I did notice that NVIDIA released an even lower version of the GeForce 10: the GT 1010. It had a GDDR5 version. The only semblance of a review or benchmark I could find was at https://videocardz.com/newz/nvidia-geforce-gt-1010-has-been-tested-in-geekbench-spoiler-its-slow. Even with GDDR5, the thing is hella slow. An Iris Xe of a i7-1165G7 outperforms it.

    So yeah, memory speed may not be the cure-all to a really low specc'd GPU.
    Reply
  • Amdlova
    What really bother me is the pci system...
    The last gen of apu is a nightmare for upgrades.
    Reply
  • renz496
    Alvar Miles Udell said:
    While that may have been true in 2018, given that dGPUs are around the $250 mark (for the 3050) these days, an APU with on board HBM fills a price gap.
    RX6600 can be had for $200 or less.
    Reply
  • evdjj3j
    Alvar Miles Udell said:
    Until AMD integrates HBM into APUs to allow them to not be handicapped by system RAM, I'm not getting excited about them.
    You should by a console then. While they don't use HBM, they are quite close to the hardware you're wanting.
    Reply