Under The Kimono: Inside Intel's Hidden R&D

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  • randomizer
    "In this test setup, the chassis gets hit with 25 G and the installed card with 50 G."

    Now that's quality control!
  • arkadi
    Intel boards perfect, as long as you don't plan to over clock....
  • Pei-chen
    Intel should move on to solid state (Japanese) capacitors. Better parts are better parts even if they are equally reliable in desktop environment.

    BTW, that “dark room” looks great. My office is too well lit.
  • enterco
    They may have good testing environment, but it seems that it's used only for 'select' motherboard/chipset combinations. For example, they don't test Core2 E7xxx CPU's in combination with x965 chipsets. Anyway, x965 boards should be able to use all Core 2 Processors with 1066 MHz.
    The conclusion: why bother to test and certify such an old motherboard chipset, as long there are so many testers out there?
  • curnel_D
    TheCapuletAhh, so this is what Toms got for this article: http://www.tomshardware.com/review [...] ,2138.html

    Probably. Lol. But at least it was worth the cool look into Intel.
  • So, if Intel is so great then, what happened with the X38, X48, and X58?
    All three performance Intel boards "suck"......X975 was a great motherboard, however it has been very average since.....Has Intel ever thought to use a "solid capacitor" motherboard for the Extreme tine of boards? What gives with the Intel board? Anyway they need an enthusist level bios such as Gigabyte, Evga, Asus, or Dfi anyway.....Greatest Cpu and Chipset combination around, however the MOBO's suck wind.......Mr. Bad Kat.........
  • Area51
    Quote:
    They may have good testing environment, but it seems that it's used only for 'select' motherboard/chipset combinations. For example, they don't test Core2 E7xxx CPU's in combination with x965 chipsets. Anyway, x965 boards should be able to use all Core 2 Processors with 1066 MHz. The conclusion: why bother to test and certify such an old motherboard chipset, as long there are so many testers out there?



    You sir are an idiot.
  • enterco
    I believe you are wrong. There are few facts:
    1. Intel claims that their boards, specifically DG965OT can be used with 'Core 2 Processors with 1066 MHz FSB' (check this link)
    2. Intel has made the Core2 E5xxx and Core2 E7xxx processors with lower FSB than E8xxx series, and these CPU's FSB are 1066, and 800 MHz, but their statement is that 45nm CPUs are compatible with 3x series chipset and later. Perhaps, a good reason to make these variants of Wolfdale is to make them available for older chipsets. But that's true only for other vendors' boards.
    3. Intel's CPU compatibility tool claims that Core2 E7xxx (1066 MHz) cannot be used with DG965OT motherboard. This can be checked here.
    4. Intel's support specialists from the agree that 'this combination is not tested'
    5. Since I've asked them any details, Intel didn't update their DG965OT product specification page, and they did not include any statement regarding Wolfdale series Core2duo processors

    Now, how can anyone explain that a motherboard which can be used with 'Core2 processors with 1066 MHz' cannot be used with Wolfdale-derived Core2s? The only answer I found is: they don't have enough resources to waste TESTING a combination whch seems to be valid; or they are interested in selling only the new motherboards, so a customer won't upgrade only the CPU.
    Best regards,
  • enterco
    It's about testing. I think it's good to know what's tested and what is not tested.
  • anonymous user
    enterco.

    Is your motherboard tested to work with every DDR3 memory vendor, every SATA HDD model, every PCI-e Video card? - NO -

    As long as Motherboard and components meet common electrical specifications - they should work fine.

    Functional testing usually covers some common components as a sanity check, but never every possible combination (that would be a waste of resources).

    As long as motherboard and CPU meet common spec (and CPU is supported by BIOS) the combination should work, even if it is "untested"

    In the end, that is the whole purpose of having electrical specificion for components.
  • The facilities don't look very professional... the equipment looks old and dirty. I've seen reports from ECS factories in China and they look much better than this.
  • cl_spdhax1
    ^- that must be why most of ECS boards are defective in some way. in a "either this works and that part dont, or it doesn't work at all," type of Q&A.
  • enterco
    anonymous userenterco.Is your motherboard tested to work with every DDR3 memory vendor, every SATA HDD model, every PCI-e Video card? - NO - As long as Motherboard and components meet common electrical specifications - they should work fine.Functional testing usually covers some common components as a sanity check, but never every possible combination (that would be a waste of resources).As long as motherboard and CPU meet common spec (and CPU is supported by BIOS) the combination should work, even if it is "untested"In the end, that is the whole purpose of having electrical specificion for components.

    I'm sure it is not tested with every peripheral. But I think that it's absurd to say that a Wolfdale-based E7xxx is not a Core2 with 1066 MHz FSB, that's what I'm trying to tell. The one saying this are the guys at Intel. And I'm wondering what would feel if you intend to upgrade your 1066 MHz with another, and the online compatibility tool would tell you that 'It's incompatible!' instead of 'It's untested'.
  • that_aznpride101
    This isn't related to the content of this article, but rather the title. Does the writer William Van Winkle know what a "kimono" is? It's a type of Japanese garment worn by women. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kimono) What is he trying to imply by "under the kimono"? Trying to get in the inside of a woman's dress? C'mon, Will, pick another title!
  • randomizer
    that_aznpride101What is he trying to imply by "under the kimono"? Trying to get in the inside of a woman's dress? C'mon, Will, pick another title!

    It's a secret place isn't it? :kaola:
  • average joe
    As a former Portland, OR. resident it was nice to finally see inside the Intel Building. I had a small repair business there three or four years ago while my resume slowly decomposed in some huge file cabinet inside their campus. I had dozens of Intel employees as customers who wants to bother with spyware on their kids PC after working on the core 2 design all day. I always told them that they need to support the enthusiast market. At the time AMD was still king. AMD had always been great at supporting not only the enthusiast Market but always the small time mechanics like me. During the years before AMD 64 and AMD 64 x2 when the stock Intel offers were on top, AMD hung in there by having a dedicated community of overclockers and enthusiasts. It's just like Ford or Chevy supporting racing. It's true today for AMD with the Black edition chips.
    Intel branded motherboards are not quite up to snuff compared to gigabyte or Asus motherboards because the BIOS features are lacking. But the chipsets themselves are getting faster. The x48 chipset is 20% faster than the 975 and 10% faster than the X38 all else being equal. That is quite an impressive feat in and of itself.
  • average joe
    I have an MSI 975 Platinum motherboard. It's not a great board. It doesn't overclock worth a darn. I bought it because it was an Editors Choice Award winner. It will any 1066 FSB chip. It will handle any E6X00 series chip. It will not run a 7x00 or 8x00 series dual core to my knowledge. I just ordered a q6600 for it to replace an e6400 that going in a HTPC. I just couldn't pass up the $190 and free shipping.
  • Pei-chen
    Average JoeI have an MSI 975 Platinum motherboard. It's not a great board. It doesn't overclock worth a darn. I bought it because it was an Editors Choice Award winner. It will any 1066 FSB chip. It will handle any E6X00 series chip. It will not run a 7x00 or 8x00 series dual core to my knowledge. I just ordered a q6600 for it to replace an e6400 that going in a HTPC. I just couldn't pass up the $190 and free shipping.

    Do you live in Forest Hills, NY and went to Forest Hills high school? Your system sounds like one of my friends with similar parts and performance parameters.

    BTW, I upgraded from E6400 to Q6600 G0 3 days ago. It is now running at 3.0GHz at 1.2v. 3.6GHz requires 1.485v and would being the temperature to 81*C. VID is 1.2625 and cooling is AC7 Pro.
  • e_sandrs
    that_aznpride101This isn't related to the content of this article, but rather the title. Does the writer William Van Winkle know what a "kimono" is? It's a type of Japanese garment worn by women. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kimono) What is he trying to imply by "under the kimono"? Trying to get in the inside of a woman's dress? C'mon, Will, pick another title!


    It's slightly misused slang - here's the first hit I got on defining a definition:

    Open the Kimono: Basically a somewhat sexist synonym for "open the books," it means to reveal the inner workings of a project or company to a prospective new partner.

    http://www.csl.sri.com/users/mwfong/Humor/Meanings/
  • enterco
    Average JoeI have an MSI 975 Platinum motherboard. It's not a great board. It doesn't overclock worth a darn. I bought it because it was an Editors Choice Award winner. It will any 1066 FSB chip. It will handle any E6X00 series chip. It will not run a 7x00 or 8x00 series dual core to my knowledge. I just ordered a q6600 for it to replace an e6400 that going in a HTPC. I just couldn't pass up the $190 and free shipping.

    It seems that MSI 975X Platinum can be used with Wolfdale based processors, check MSI Support site. Now, can anyone show me a mobo manufacturer (other than Intel) who doesn't support Wolfdale core on 9xx chipsets?
  • average joe
    I went to MSI's web site last weekend before I order my q6600. I didn't really check beyond making sure it would take the q6600. The boards max FSB is 1066. If it takes a 1333 FSB chip it would have to underclock it wouldn't it?

    This thing isn't going to go to 1333. I'm lucky to get a 2.1ghz E6400 to 2.4ghz on it. Thats with downclocking the ram to 667.

    I'm replacing the PSU, CPU fan and memory with higher grade or newer parts. Most of it would be useful on a future build. PSU might last years and the fan has a I7 bracket.

    I have a socket 939 AMD system as well. I never bought the last x2 for it and I regret it. If I had a x2 in it it would still be usefull. Now I just want to reuse the case. It will probably be an AM3 system some day.
  • randomizer
    entercoIt seems that MSI 975X Platinum can be used with Wolfdale based processors, check MSI Support site. Now, can anyone show me a mobo manufacturer (other than Intel) who doesn't support Wolfdale core on 9xx chipsets?

    Abit doesn't support it on all of their P965 boards, at least not officially. The Ab9/Ab9 Pro have a beta BIOS that is hit-and-miss if it will even work.
  • enterco
    Average JoeI went to MSI's web site last weekend before I order my q6600. I didn't really check beyond making sure it would take the q6600. The boards max FSB is 1066. If it takes a 1333 FSB chip it would have to underclock it wouldn't it?This thing isn't going to go to 1333. I'm lucky to get a 2.1ghz E6400 to 2.4ghz on it. Thats with downclocking the ram to 667.I'm replacing the PSU, CPU fan and memory with higher grade or newer parts. Most of it would be useful on a future build. PSU might last years and the fan has a I7 bracket.I have a socket 939 AMD system as well. I never bought the last x2 for it and I regret it. If I had a x2 in it it would still be usefull. Now I just want to reuse the case. It will probably be an AM3 system some day.

    975x chipset should do more. A friend of mine has paired a 965 mobo with Core2Duo E8400, and it works @ 1333 MHz FSB, but he had to rise the CPU voltage to make it work stable. The same friend of mine had an x2 4400 CPU, and the performance difference is amazing since he moved to C2D. The x2 was the 'bottleneck' on his system, and now he is very happy with C2D E8400.

    randomizerAbit doesn't support it on all of their P965 boards, at least not officially. The Ab9/Ab9 Pro have a beta BIOS that is hit-and-miss if it will even work.

    On abit's web site I see that the latest BIOS for AB9 is dated 11/06/2007. So... I remember that Wolfdale with FSB 1066 was released in Q3/2008. Anyway, you can count on the fingers from one hand the manufacturers not supporting Wolfdale/1066 on 965 series chipsets.
  • randomizer
    entercoOn abit's web site I see that the latest BIOS for AB9 is dated 11/06/2007. So... I remember that Wolfdale with FSB 1066 was released in Q3/2008. Anyway, you can count on the fingers from one hand the manufacturers not supporting Wolfdale/1066 on 965 series chipsets.

    Like i said, beta BIOS. Abit only lists official BIOSs there. The beta was "leaked" by someone who asked about support for Wolfdale.