Ryzen 7000 3D V-Cache CPUs May Offer Even More Bandwidth Than First-Gen Counterparts

Ryzen 7 5800X3D
(Image credit: Tom's Hardware)

According to a Tweet by semiconductor engineering professional Tom Wassick, (opens in new tab) it appears that Ryzen 7000 processors seemingly received some upgrades in preparation for upcoming SKUs with 3D V-Cache. Wassick has reportedly discovered more TSV columns in the Zen 4 CCD, suggesting this upgrade could allow for greater V-Cache bandwidth potential than the Ryzen 7 5800X3D, one of the best CPUs for gaming.

To be more specific, Wassick says there are two much larger and denser arrays on the Ryzen 7000 chip and some pitch reduction - along with the additional TSV columns. It means Ryzen 7000 3D V-Cache slabs will have more contact area with the CPU, leading to greater L3 cache bandwidth and possible extra power.

3D V-Cache is AMD's stacked L3 caching technology that allows the chipmaker to triple the amount of L3 cache available to the chip by stacking an additional 64MB of SRAM cache on top of a Ryzen's CCD—significantly boosting L3 cache-sensitive workloads such as gaming.

The only consumer-based chip that AMD has released with 3D V-Cache technology is the Ryzen 7 5800X3D, which features 96MB of L3 cache in total. The Ryzen 7 5800X3D exploded to the top of our gaming charts, where it could match or outpace the competition, such as Intel's 12th Generation Alder Lake CPUs.

For Ryzen 7000, the additional TSV contacts suggest AMD's second-generation implementation of the stacked cache will have higher bandwidth potential over the Ryzen 7 5800X3D's already impressive 2 TBps bandwidth. However, due to the relatively small size of the L3 cache, compared to DDR4/DDR5 memory, having more bandwidth is always lovely to have, so the CPU can swap resources in and out of the L3 cache at a faster rate, which can improve performance.

We suspect the additional contact points will also give the 3D V-Cache other power input if necessary. Extra power could also provide the V-Cache a more considerable performance boost, but that will depend on the design choices AMD will use for AMD's Ryzen 7000 parts; there's a chance the 3D V-Cache could be more efficient and require less power instead of more power.

Overall, these additional TSVs don't say much about how AMD's next-generation 3D V-Cache will operate or how much better it will be over the 5800X3D. But there's a good chance it means Ryzen 7000X3D will, at the very least, have more bandwidth over the Ryzen 7 5800X3D based on this information.

Aaron Klotz
Freelance News Writer

Aaron Klotz is a freelance writer for Tom’s Hardware US, covering news topics related to computer hardware such as CPUs, and graphics cards.

  • TR909
    Would be nice to see higher clocks (close to non3D ones) and better non-gaming performance compared to zen3.
    Reply
  • Mattzun
    Non-gaming performance seems to be mostly related to core count.
    The5800x3d is about the same speed (or slower) than a 5800x in Cinebench and I don't see that changing (heat dissipation will still be an issue)

    If the ECO 105 mode on the 7700x provides 95 percent of the performance of unlocked power limit on the same chip, the 7800x3d should be amazing for CPU limited gaming on really high end GPUs.
    This seems to be a rather small niche (MSFS fans who don't like frame generation, Spiderman with ray tracing on, some 1080p games)
    A 13600k or a 5800x3d seems good enough for even a 4090 in most games.
    Reply
  • -Fran-
    Let's see how it does on benchmark day.

    I'm certainly optimistic, but if my 5800X3D is any indication, they do have a few things to improve (vs the non-VCache) in order to make those unstoppable. One is the chips running a tad hotter than a comparable 5800X, so I'll imagine Zen4 is not going to change that too much. Given how these now just happily go to 95°C, maybe they've already started hiding the temps? Maybe?

    A hot take, perhaps, but for me at least the "real" temperature of the CPU is important. I hope they improve the IHS for it, somehow.

    Regards.
    Reply
  • escksu
    I have to say the biggest challenge is to get software companies to support it. The real deal isn't in gaming desktop CPUs, it's in the high end servers.

    Right now, only very few apps benefit from the epyc CPUs with additional cache. So, alot more needs to be done.
    Reply
  • TerryLaze
    escksu said:
    I have to say the biggest challenge is to get software companies to support it. The real deal isn't in gaming desktop CPUs, it's in the high end servers.

    Right now, only very few apps benefit from the epyc CPUs with additional cache. So, alot more needs to be done.
    You can't magically support something just because you want to.
    If your code uses a lot of data that stays the same (7zip inbuild bench that uses a fixed dataset of 32Mb) it will automatically benefit from the cache, we have seen that from the first gen of zen cpus, if it uses less data or the data changes often then cache will give less or no benefit.
    If devs could do that they would do it since day one because it would be great advertising for them showing their code run that much faster, it's not like devs don't want to make more sales.
    Reply
  • KraakBal
    Disagree. The whole point of cache is to be transparent to software, and should always benefit where memory access is a lot.

    Software can though and is very rarely optimized for specific cache sizes. But only generally to make it fit in a particular smaller target cache size.

    You have to understand that some loads just don't access memory that often by their nature, so will not see the increase of more cache. Games actually seems to benefit most of the time
    Reply
  • George³
    Forgive a question from someone with insufficient knowledge, but ... How does increasing the contact area between the cache layer and the CPU logic below magically help to achieve higher throughput? It's not like running water through two pipes of different diameters, is it?
    Reply
  • jkflipflop98
    George³ said:
    Forgive a question from someone with insufficient knowledge, but ... How does increasing the contact area between the cache layer and the CPU logic below magically help to achieve higher throughput? It's not like running water through two pipes of different diameters, is it?


    In this instance they mean that AMD is putting in more pipes so more water can flow in faster. Not that the pipes themselves are getting bigger (they're actually getting smaller)
    Reply
  • George³
    I waiting for logical answer not for analogical. :)
    Is more "pipes" fit to wider bus. Like different between 128bit bus and 256bit bus?
    Reply
  • cc2onouui
    -Fran- said:
    Let's see how it does on benchmark day.

    I'm certainly optimistic, but if my 5800X3D is any indication, they do have a few things to improve (vs the non-VCache) in order to make those unstoppable. One is the chips running a tad hotter than a comparable 5800X, so I'll imagine Zen4 is not going to change that too much. Given how these now just happily go to 95°C, maybe they've already started hiding the temps? Maybe?

    A hot take, perhaps, but for me at least the "real" temperature of the CPU is important. I hope they improve the IHS for it, somehow.

    Regards.
    X3D will be a lot better than regular 7000s from thermal perspective because of the extra layer it will allow for thinner IHS.. this definitely will dominate (my guess) also in multi threaded workloads because ZEN 7000 can boost "all cores" over 5,5 GHz with better thermal (not sure they will boost the clocks though as the voltage could be a limit again), the small mistake AMD did with the IHS made all the doubts about a high performer they shouldn't respect the AM4 cooler compatibility
    Reply