Researchers embed digital 'fingerprints' into 3D printed parts — tech may make future ghost guns more traceable

Admin said:

Washington University researchers have developed a way to embed traceable fingerprints into 3D printed objects, which could make it easier to track ghost guns in the future.

Researchers embed digital 'fingerprints' into 3D printed parts — tech may make future ghost guns more traceable : Read more

I literally made an account just to be able to respond to this. I have made a lot of 3D printed firearms over the years, including several of my own design, including using 3d printers of my own design. This is absolutely a futile attempt at combating something which is legal and protected by the Constitution.
But, if they really wanted to print something "illegal", "simplifying the model" by 1% in the slicer would absolutely destroy any digital fingerprints that weren't obvious.
Harmonics between printers isn't reliable either because they change throughout time and temperature even with the same printer.
Nozzles are consumable and not reliable either.
Not sure what else is left at that point.

I'm all for fighting crime, but this is dumb.

Completely pointless. Part of the 3D printing hobby is modding your printer, New hot end or even a whole new toolhead are part of the fun. As mentioned above the nozzles themselves are a consumable item. And given that most popular printer firmware is open source as is the slicer software.

They tried this with explosive identification taggants. Only the Swiss require them(kinda), and it's been 40+ years.

Klemvore said:

Agreed.

I don't have a 3D printer for nefarious or normal purposes...

But people will print using older versions of the software...

they will use software to strip the fingerprint out... same way they strip DRM outta video games and music files.

if it is on the surface they will just sand the print...

if it is inside the print then it can mess up the structural integrity of the print as anything able to see seen through the other plastic would have to be substantial.

If it needs to build it while connected to the internet it just won't be connected to the internet or a dummy server will be set up on that network with a DNS entry on the local network to point to it to hand it a fingerprint that isn't in the database.

Like "interesting" thoughts on how to combat plastic guns.... here is a thought... we can't seem to track the REGULAR GUNS made and sold in stores... maybe we should tackle that problem first...

Why use a plastic gun that can blow up in your face when you can use a metal one professionally made that is more accurate and doesn't explode in your face? This is the USA you can buy guns all day long from private sellers that are not registered to you.... so we don't need to worry about plastic guns... no one is using them.

Obviously you don't get out much because Ghost Guns ARE very prevalent in the criminal world, several people have been busted printing them like a factory, they're cheap, disposable and easily obtained and any high school kid can learn how to do it at school then go buy a $60 dollar printer get some filament and in a weekend print out 5-6 at $100 - $150 a pop, they're in business, so yes people are using them.

JonJon061078 said:

Obviously you don't get out much because Ghost Guns ARE very prevalent in the criminal world, several people have been busted printing them like a factory, they're cheap, disposable and easily obtained and any high school kid can learn how to do it at school then go buy a $60 dollar printer get some filament and in a weekend print out 5-6 at $100 - $150 a pop, they're in business, so yes people are using them.

A "Ghost Gun" is literally just an unregistered firearm, that doesn't have a serial number and tax stamp. They can be as cheap or expensive as you want them to be.

A fully 3d-printed gun (all plastic) is going to be able to be fired once per barrel, assuming the barrels are sufficiently separated and it doesn't explode during that first shot - the heat and pressure from that first round will scorch and melt the barrel and destroy any structural integrity it once had. It is also going to have terrible accuracy and be limited to low-powered rounds. And, not to be pedantic, but you need more than just 3d-printed parts to make a functional firearm, no matter how crappy. At absolute minimum, you'll need some form of firing pin (a nail, if you're desperate), and you'll really want a decent spring, unless you plan on firing it with a hammer.

Just remember, we've lived ages in a world where anyone with access to a Home Depot can put together a basic pipe pistol or shotgun that actually *can* be reloaded and fired again, and, while lack of rifling makes a pipe pistol terribly inaccurate, it will still function better than a 100% 3d-printed pistol. And, of course, it's also pretty trivial to just put together a zip-gun.

So, why haven't we seen more crimes committed with these, or fully 3d-printed guns (and, despite what you mentioned in your post, actual recorded crimes using them have been sufficiently limited that they could be a rounding error)?

Because there are already more guns than people in this country, and getting a real gun illegally, one that can fire more than one shot without exploding, is actually somewhat accurate and reliable, is already incredibly easy as is.

No one is going to commit real crime using a crappy, single-shot hunk of plastic that may not even fire, and may very well explode in your hand if it does.

Now, you *can* use a 3D printer as the main tool for making real, proper guns, but you're going to need a lot of additional parts, and it's a lot more work than quickly printing 5-6 in a weekend. It's also perfectly legal, assuming it meets basic legal standards in terms of overall size, barrel length, etc, you apply for your tax stamp, and properly serialize it. Compared to paying a homeless guy $50 to walk into the nearest Walmart to buy you the cheapest shotgun they have, it's certainly a lot more work.

Crappy single-shot, 99% 3d-printed guns are useful for pretty much only one scenario: you want to kill one specific person, you can get close enough without suspicion to where you're guaranteed to hit no matter what, and you know you can get away and go to ground for at least several hours, or however long it takes for you to discreetly burn the gun and your clothes (gunpowder residue still exists, as does blood splatter).

Or, more simply, the single advantage such a gun can offer over equally available alternatives is that you can burn it until there is almost nothing left. And any fingerprint will be a blob of melted, charred plastic when you do.

I'm not saying they have zero potential for criminal usage, but the practical usage case represents such a ridiculously small percentage of real world gun crimes that working in almost any other avenue of trying to prevent gun crime will result in significantly more lives saved.

purposelycryptic said:

A "Ghost Gun" is literally just an unregistered firearm, that doesn't have a serial number and tax stamp. They can be as cheap or expensive as you want them to be.

A fully 3d-printed gun (all plastic) is going to be able to be fired once per barrel, assuming the barrels are sufficiently separated and it doesn't explode during that first shot - the heat and pressure from that first round will scorch and melt the barrel and destroy any structural integrity it once had. It is also going to have terrible accuracy and be limited to low-powered rounds. And, not to be pedantic, but you need more than just 3d-printed parts to make a functional firearm, no matter how crappy. At absolute minimum, you'll need some form of firing pin (a nail, if you're desperate), and you'll really want a decent spring, unless you plan on firing it with a hammer.

Just remember, we've lived ages in a world where anyone with access to a Home Depot can put together a basic pipe pistol or shotgun that actually *can* be reloaded and fired again, and, while lack of rifling makes a pipe pistol terribly inaccurate, it will still function better than a 100% 3d-printed pistol. And, of course, it's also pretty trivial to just put together a zip-gun.

So, why haven't we seen more crimes committed with these, or fully 3d-printed guns (and, despite what you mentioned in your post, actual recorded crimes using them have been sufficiently limited that they could be a rounding error)?

Because there are already more guns than people in this country, and getting a real gun illegally, one that can fire more than one shot without exploding, is actually somewhat accurate and reliable, is already incredibly easy as is.

No one is going to commit real crime using a crappy, single-shot hunk of plastic that may not even fire, and may very well explode in your hand if it does.

Now, you *can* use a 3D printer as the main tool for making real, proper guns, but you're going to need a lot of additional parts, and it's a lot more work than quickly printing 5-6 in a weekend. It's also perfectly legal, assuming it meets basic legal standards in terms of overall size, barrel length, etc, you apply for your tax stamp, and properly serialize it. Compared to paying a homeless guy $50 to walk into the nearest Walmart to buy you the cheapest shotgun they have, it's certainly a lot more work.

Crappy single-shot, 99% 3d-printed guns are useful for pretty much only one scenario: you want to kill one specific person, you can get close enough without suspicion to where you're guaranteed to hit no matter what, and you know you can get away and go to ground for at least several hours, or however long it takes for you to discreetly burn the gun and your clothes (gunpowder residue still exists, as does blood splatter).

Or, more simply, the single advantage such a gun can offer over equally available alternatives is that you can burn it until there is almost nothing left. And any fingerprint will be a blob of melted, charred plastic when you do.

I'm not saying they have zero potential for criminal usage, but the practical usage case represents such a ridiculously small percentage of real world gun crimes that working in almost any other avenue of trying to prevent gun crime will result in significantly more lives saved.

There are tools at every home depot, harbor freight, or Lowe's that spin as it is pushed into a tube, you determine how many spins per the length of tube. It will cut a groove into the tube, and this is how you make the twist rate for the rifling in a barrel. Grease g*ns are a thing, made from a grease gun, they are made to be automatic, take magazine's, can be pretty accurate, they may last a lifetime, and are cheap, easy to make, and can be more dangerous than legally available weapons. Yet we never hear about them in the news... hmmmm

Basically, I'm in full agreement. I'd rather have a potential bad guy use a plastic one. Just my 2 cents.