Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't windows7 supposed to need 2gb of memory because of XP? I haven't seen a netbook (apart from sony) that has 2gb.

3 apps at a time? WHAT WERE THEY THINKING?????????????????????????

"Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't windows7 supposed to need 2gb of memory because of XP? I haven't seen a netbook (apart from sony) that has 2gb."

actually, it takes 2 gigs to run windows xp in windows 7 in vm mode, Windows 7 itself doesn't require 2 gigs to run.

Chances are, a netbook version of windows 7 will drop windows xp compatibility.
As for three apps at a time: Web Browser, IM client, Email client. What exactly are you using a NETbook for anyway?

yeah dreamphantom is right. but i wonder how much memory is really sufficient to run windows 7 efficiently. that's a question that i am sure will be answered not too long from now if it hasn't already.

I agree that the netbook version probably won't have much XP compatibility. We'll see when it's release though. Honestly I wouldn't worry about it since I have my laptop and I would only go with Linux on a netbook.

The man has a point. Would be nice if they only counted programs that populate the main part of the taskbar though.

6 Gigs of DDR3 Ram for 80$ on newegg. I don't mind if Windows 7 tries to make better use of memory or not.

1 gig of ram is enough to run win7 smoothly.

I just want proper driver support for windows 7 from computer manufacturers...right now I cant rotate my screen on my 4 year old tablet using windows 7 because intel doesn't have any drivers for its 855gme chipset...I upgraded the ram to 1.5gb and so far, windows 7 runs very smooth

Three apps is more than enough for most people. How many programs can you possibly use effectively at once anyway? This isn't really as limiting as it sounds.

As to what Microsoft was thinking, it's probably something like: How can we make money on this product if we have to sell it at such a low price point that it cannibalizes the sales of higher featured Windows 7 versions?

Microsoft wants people to ignore the Starter version, thus the reason it will only be available through OEM's. They would prefer to only sell a higher priced option because they don't really make much if any money on the Starter version, especially when you consider how much it cost them to develop it in the first place. If they give it too much functionality then no one will want to upgrade to a more expensive version.

Of course this may turn some people off of buying a machine with Starter on it, which is almost as good in Microsoft's eyes. This may even cause some people to change to a different OS, but people who will do that are the vast minority of Windows users. Bottom line is Microsoft knows that the average user will be used to using Windows and will probably chose Windows over another option going forward because they are used to it, or just don't care enough to want something else.

What it all comes down to, is that the Starter version of Windows 7 exists solely for the purpose of obtaining new customers that are only able to afford a netbook, or another type low cost machine. This way when they finally need to / or can afford to they will hopefully be biased towards Windows.

But what do I know anyway...

Three apps is more than enough for most people. How many programs can you possibly use effectively at once anyway? This isn't really as limiting as it sounds.

As to what Microsoft was thinking, it's probably something like: How can we make money on this product if we have to sell it at such a low price point that it cannibalizes the sales of higher featured Windows 7 versions?

Microsoft wants people to ignore the Starter version, thus the reason it will only be available through OEM's. They would prefer to only sell a higher priced option because they don't really make much if any money on the Starter version, especially when you consider how much it cost them to develop it in the first place. If they give it too much functionality then no one will want to upgrade to a more expensive version.

Of course this may turn some people off of buying a machine with Starter on it, which is almost as good in Microsoft's eyes. This may even cause some people to change to a different OS, but people who will do that are the vast minority of Windows users. Bottom line is Microsoft knows that the average user will be used to using Windows and will probably chose Windows over another option going forward because they are used to it, or just don't care enough to want something else.

What it all comes down to, is that the Starter version of Windows 7 exists solely for the purpose of obtaining new customers that are only able to afford a netbook, or another type low cost machine. This way when they finally need to / or can afford to they will hopefully be biased towards Windows.

But what do I know anyway...

I'm writing this in Windows 7 on a 5 y/o P4 2.4GHz 512k Dell Inspiron 1100, and while not as frisky as my dual Xeon desktop computer, it's certainly adequate. It's only slightly less responsive than when running XP Pro, and about the same as when running OSX.

I would assume... and will be testing my theory in a month or so, that Windows 7 will have the same responsiveness running on a netbook with 2GB of RAM.

i dont think people with a netbook will be doing windows xp vm, their hardware is not up to it, and if you could would be very slow. yes there will be netbooks with 2gb and 160 gb harddisk. i can buy one right now and 2 ghz atom cpus will be available even before windows 7 ships, but from the stuff ive read and seen windows 7 is a tweaked out windows vista, yeah they have made improvements and it will take those 2 ghz machines with 2 gb to run anything well, sure it will run with 1 ghz and 1 gb. i guess if all you are going to do is surf the web performance will be acceptable, but try to start windows office and things will quickly get ugly, maybe this is why windows 7 starter has 3 application limit, ;-) and if you have one of those older netbooks, forget about it, the pain will be great, i for one can't wait to get off vista and install windows 7.

If they have a Vista driver it will work on 7. Also its not MSs responsibility to make that happen its on the manufacture, and if they havnt made a Vista driver yet after 3 years then they are slackers plain and simple and you should stop doing business with them.

As for what will work on a Netbook. You can use premium easily and not have to go with the starter kit. All you have to do is go to Control panel>Programs>Programs and Features and over on the left you will see "Turn Windows Features On Or Off" in there you can completely disable things like IE8,Media Player, Windows Gadget Platform, Windows search etc. etc. etc.

This will reduce alot of whats running in the background. Plus will most likely already be running with Aero off after install.

"Unfortunately, many skeptics are left with a bad taste in their mouth considering that Windows 7 Starter Edition can only run three applications at a time."

That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard... I bet even my grandma could blow past 3 applications in no time. What a worthless OS version.

nice to see a company designing with the market in mind. unlike apple who refuses to make a cheap netbook because they are "too good" for netbooks

Windows 7 is running extremely well on my Acer Aspire One netbook with only 1GB of RAM... it's actually faster than XP (believe me or not) and lasts about 2h30 instead of only 1h30 under XP... I have to admit I'm only running build 7000 since it's the only x86 DVD I had but I'm on my way to finishing downloading the RC and putting it on to see how it reacts.
I believe it will be good since my Core 2 Duo with 4GB of RAM got a lot faster with build 7100.

About the three apps story, it's not like it's the only SKU Microsoft is rolling out, at this point, we will get a PC for a lot cheaper than we do now since licenses will be less costly for the OEM's and after we can decide, do we need Home Premium or Pro? Or we want to take it all and go Ultimate? Also, an upgrade is ALWAYS cheaper than full retail version.

Thats because of a (well known) licensing issue with Microsoft limiting 1 gig of RAM on Netbooks with XP. Some Netbooks (those with the Z series Atoms) are limited to 1 gig of memory because its soldered on a daugher board with the CPU. All other Netbooks that just use a SO-DIMM for memory are capable of using up to a 2 gig stick of RAM. My Dell mini 9 has 2 gigs of RAM. Those who havent used a Netbook shouldnt underestimate what it can do without first trying. I find that its capable of most tasks except for high end gaming and video editing (smart computer users dont do these on any kind of laptop anyway).

That said,my Mini 9 can play some older games just fine. It lags a lot(but smooth as can be when no other characters are on screen),but KOTOR is pretty playable,its an RPG,some lag wont matter.

One guy at ComputerWorld wasn't too impressed with Win 7 on a netbook:

http://blogs.computerworld.com/run [...] _a_netbook

Though it seems like he would have had better experience with 2 gigs.

My dell mini 9 is running win7 ultimate (build 7077) fine. Quicker than XP and much nicer to use and I'm using full aero on it. So dunno why there's all this talk of only home premium or starter edition. Ultimate FTW!

"Unfortunately, many skeptics are left with a bad taste in their mouth considering that Windows 7 Starter Edition can only run three applications at a time."


some of you guys are missing the key words here "STARTER EDITION"

try READING good and then THINKING before you comment

starter edition might be used by 2/3rds of the populace at best , most comps will come with hiome premium or ultimate , and y one thta actually goes and buys teh OS for upgrade purposes is going to go for a higher end version ,also theywill most likely go for a 64 bit version because at this time goign for a 32 bit os counter productie to upgrading a system any way.

^ ffs spell check. We will just have to wait and see what will come of the Windows 7. Areas seem promising, others seem like Microsoft still have yet to learn from their mistakes. I am not a Microsoft shop, but I will use whatever tool is best for the job.

and btw, if 2/3 of the populace is using something, then most comps cannot come with home premium or ultimate can they? dumb point to argue as we have no figures on anything and are months away from seeing any form of migration.

Try going back to school before flaming others.

You are totally right...unfortunately Intel never came out with a Vista driver for my 855gme chipset...and this is why I don't do business with them...

Add MP3 player and RDP/VNC session(s) and possibly some other application do do actual work, like a word processor (doesn't have to be Office, just wordpad) and or basic spreadsheet. Calculator, paint... I'm not saying you'll use all of these at once, but the limit should have been at least 5 unless they want 75% of users to barf.

[citation][nom]demonhorde665[/nom] starter edition might be used by 2/3rds of the populace at best [citation]

Maybe, but I believe they are planning on making Starter Edition the standard for netbooks(the problem), which is what we're talking about here, not general computers. While netbooks may be somewhat slower now, why box yourself in like that? In 1 year, netbooks will be quite capable of running several apps at once quickly. By then the dual core ATOM should be popular/cheap. 8Watt TDP dual core Atom 330 plus better chipset(945GSE) = still very power concious etc.

With that argument, I counter that they should embrace user-friendly linux distributions like Ubuntu instead. These would reduce the cost of the netbook (no OS licensing cost) and easily handle the 3 types of apps you mentioned, all while being easily tailored to look like a windows or mac system.

Also, here are the things I'd see netbook users also using: Solitaire, office suite software, pdf reader, mp3/streaming internet radio player, hamachi (or other "connect to your dynamic IP home network" software), and/or a VPN client.

Hopefully you can see how easy it is to exceed 3 apps.

I tested win 7 beta with 500MB,but had a slow system due to too much swap access.
A clean install of Win7 needs about 768MB of ram to operate fine.
Anything higher is for programs. Many netbooks with Win 7 will come out with 2GB which is great, because it doesn't cost more to manufacture them with more ram; but if you want to keep it budget, cheaper mininetbooks probably will come with 1GB of ram,and still run fine!
My estimation is that the trimmed down version of Win 7 will operate fine with 512MB ram,provided if there's no integrated graphics using memory.

As far as needing 2GB to run XP in Win7 is a bit bull.
You basically need 768MB RAM to run 7, and 384MB RAM on a clean install of XP. Add 32MB of VRAM to both 7 and XP, and you'll be able to run XP in a virtual environment in Windows 7 with only 1,2GB of RAM.
Those are minimum specs,and tests done with the 7 beta version and a clean install of XP SP3 in MS Virtual PC 2007.
Besides, as soon as you swap over to the virtual application running XP, resources of Windows 7 get minimized, and win7 won't need as much as 768MB of RAM, because it's statically and not used.
Running XP in 7 might get crammed running on 1GB of ram though...

On what facts do you base your theory in saying that 2Ghz Atoms will be available before Win7?
Win 7 is expected to get launched somewhere close to (end of) May 2009, and you are talking of the Atom pc at 2 Ghz,which the press don't even know about?

If they do know,please send the link to the article.
As far as I know before the atom gets bumped up (above 1,8Ghz) , they will get their integrated graphics chip and get released as another type of atom (eg 'Atom X45' or so...).
But I don't see Intel releasing an Atom 2Ghz before win7 comes out.

I think a windows rotate on a tablet pc should be an OS issue.
It's sending the same info to the graphics card, only upside down.
I think it should become a standard feat for Win 7.

Sicundercover: just send feedback to MS stating this issue. You're still in time. Perhaps we'll see that being improved in the future, which will release us of drivers and systray programs.