the main gripe that i have with apple is the overpricing of their products. If only a little research is done one will be able to see how they can get a much better deal.
The main thing that annoys me is not the company itself but some of the consumers that buy their products. These are the people that will drop 500 bucks on an mp3 player before researching the alternatives, and when asked why they like their ipod will respond by saying, "Its awesome."
that's it though, i feel that apple is a fairly innovative company and is necessary as they provide some competition for microsoft

I think you mean "moot" point.

It's their upgrade options seriously over priced you think their ram is from rambus and the hdd are made of gold or something. Then it's the obscurity they put around upgrading their hardware to make us fearful of buying anything not from apple If they really opened it up to allow anyone to build mac computer then we might actually have something to compete with Microsoft but their whole quality control bull shit doesn't fly for their overpriced stuff.

For me it is a combination of the price, the inability to build your own (that is officially sanctioned and supported), and the fact that mostly all the good games are only released to Windows. To a lesser degree I don't care for the front-end design of their OS. There are many quirks about the OS that I just hate, but not really worth going into detail about here. Maybe it is because I am so used to Windows, but I have used OS X extensively during the 10.2 and 10.3 years so it is not for lack of experience.

"Is it the pricing?

Is it the software
?

Is it the operating system?

Is it the compatibility?"

Yes to all of these and lets not forget their untruth marketing such as they try to say they aren't a PC and their annoying ads. Plus the censorship factor they will delete or lock any topic where people report common problems with their apple product and they also do the same to any constructive criticism.

Anyways I'll try and make a similar or better system later and post the results.

I think any unbiased "geek" could only have two real complaints about Macs. The first is price. The hardware is overpriced, no doubt about it, but the margin is lowering.

The second complaint is more philosophical: Apple doesn't have the best track record recording DRM and restrictive, proprietary software. But then again, neither does Microsoft.

They stole the linux kernel and returned nothing to the open source community. For that, they get a life time boycott.

It's the pricing, the OS, and the company itself.

Cheapest macbook I could find was 1099 CDN, for a previous generation. The newest gen was 1399 at it's cheapest (at futureshop/bestbuy). The upgrades are unbelievably priced, and there wouldn't be a chance in hell I would ever purchase one.

The OS isn't too bad, but I hate the dock. I hate that Windows 7 is copying it. It is not at all intuitive, and its inefficient. I much prefer reading a word or two rather than deciphering what each program's icons are. I do like how it organizes its apps though, in terms of switching between running programs. command+tab to switch between apps and command+tilde to switch between windows in that app. I hate how painful it is to select a section of a line of code when I'm developing. I have to do some awkward 3 button press, where on the PC I just hit shift+home or shift+end depending on the direction I want. I constantly use those keys along with page up/page down, insert and delete, and I find it awkward now that they are missing.

I hate the company for the image they try to create for themselves. Especially their commercials.. sure, they can be funny, but it is so childish and completely off target. I don't think there's anything really revolutionary about their products that justifies their price, other than maybe the ipod touch.

However I am extremely biased because I'm a PC gamer, and I've used windows for most of my life, from 3.11. I've only used OSX for about 2 months, and I certainly haven't "made the switch". If I could do ipod touch dev'ing on the PC, you bet your ass I would. I certainly would not have dished out 1300 for a macbook..

I don't like Macs because of their marketing, and their users.

They make false claims in their marketing, intentionally marketing to people who are ignorant, and playing on that ignorance. In fact, they idealize ignorance.

It's the only way they could get away with what they charge for their systems, and upgrades.

First of all, lack of support from 3rd parties. Obviously, look at games. Mac games are absolutely terrible in terms of selection and quality. Also, they're harder to upgrade than a PC and they lack the free-form of PCs.

They focus way to much on them being "simple to use". If you honestly can't figure out the "point-and-click" ease of today's OS, then you have a problem.

Also, pretty much everything Tindytim said.

And lastly the users. The uptight snobs who make retarded claims like "Macs can't get viruses" and such. They put themselves above PC users because they feel the need to "rebel" against spread sheets. PCs are perfect, all around computers, and I hope with Windows 7, people will learn how efficient a PC is, and why they dominate the market.

*iTunes is a bitch too. I hate that software more than anything... anything!

I can't believe how much credit you guys are giving to Apple. I mean come on they're unique stuff is just the OS (which in fact is based on BSD). So they tricked you into buying overpriced PC hardware add the OSX wrapped up in white shiny box and they call themselves "different". That is just insane. You give them way too much credit for "their" stuff just get the OSX ant paint you case in white and it's pretty much the same thing. iPod and iPhone is a whole different marketing story but we're talking about computers here.

2x Xeon E5520 Nehalem = 419.97 x2 @ keenzo.com
2x Crucial 3x1GB DDR3 1066 RAM = 49.99 x2 @ newegg
WD Caviar Black 640GB 7200 RPM Sata2 HD = 89.99 @ newegg
GIGABYTE GV-N95TOC 9500GT (GT 120) = 79.99 @ newegg
Lite On 20x Superdrive 23.99 @ Newegg
Asus Z8NA-D6 (Can't find this anywhere, but can't be more than $400)
Cooler Master Stacker 830 w/1000W PSU 399.99 @ Newegg

Total = 1933.88 + Tax & Shipping.

Before I go any further i want to say that my first PC was a Lisa and my first PC i rebuilt was a Apple 2e.

1st
I like building my own machines. Many people today do. I liken it to the days when guys would sit in their garage and wrench on their muscle cars all day. However you cant just sit and wrench on an apple. There are a few things you can change but overall there are only a handful of parts that are compatible. I might be more compelled to use their OS if they allowed the same kind of freedoms that using MS or Linux/Gnu does.

2nd
The advertising. What else needs to be said. The Apple adds openly suggest that if you use any other product then theirs, you are and uncool dweeb who has never been with a woman. Likewise many of the people who buy their product reflect the advertising by acting this way in return.

I would probably like Apple a lot more if it wasn't for the people that use their product. Their like Raiders fans, only wimpier, and frail.

Honestly for me it is its difference from the niche that I have dug into with microsoft/windows based PCs and products. I havent ever used an apple product except for an ipod to any significant degree. The few times i have tried to screw around on apple products their equipment seems so very different I have no real urge to try and learn the OS and the features. If i were to look around online it would be very obvious that Mac's are more expensive but I honestly dont know what it is about them that warrants the price. Due to these things it wouldnt matter if Apple had anything that was superior. I as a consumer wouldnt know it and wouldnt really see the reason behind trying to learn it.

PC it is.

The whole apple thing... Their ads, their crappy hardware for price, price, OS, people who use macs, the company. Its basically image and thats what people care about. I can't bash them too much people are still buying from them i guess image means that much to people and therefor we must have a need for overpriced PCs.

To me, it seems there is no reason to spend an overpriced amount on a system you could build with a similar operating system (BSD or Linux, or even OSX) and better components for (sometimes) much less. Also, I've never really liked Apple's DRM and patent use (refer to the most recent EU problems). Finally, I have always thought of Apple users to be a little too proud of their systems. They seem to bring them everywhere (don't really blame them - I probably would too if I spent that much on a laptop).

After having written this, I'm now also wondering why we are being asked to "Explain our case" why we don't like Apple. Seems strange.

Oh and it also frustrates me how they have to name almost everything beginning with an 'i' You have the iPod, iMac (yuck!), iTunes, iPhone, iTV, iDisk, iSync, iWork, iLife, iMovie, iPhoto, yada yada yada.

^ QFT!!!
Plus I totally agree with what radiowars said, especially about the damn iTunes!!!!!!!!

Plus any company that drowns out the voices(be it constructive criticism or just a complaint) of its users, is not one I like to associate with. Don't even get me started about their retail store tactics (in stores like Best Buy, Fry's, CC, etc.) regarding the iPod's and competing pmp's! Any company that gives incentives to stores for not placing their competitors products on the shelves is a pretty big piece of shit company IMHO.

I don't have a problem with Apple. I even do all my computing (5 different OSs, Windows 7, OS X 10.5.6, OS X 10.4.11, Solaris (including the OpenSolaris variant), Ubuntu 9.04 alpha 6, all sorted between multibooting and virtual machines) on a first-gen MacBook Pro that I got used for $500. I do CAD work, Java programming in Eclipse, gaming in Windows and under CrossOver (a Wine variant that supports hardware-accelerated DirectX), VB6 and VB Express 2008, Photoshop and GIMP work. I use 5 different browsers: Chrome, Safari 4, Firefox, IE8, and Opera. This is just by way of saying that I don't think that anyone can call me an Apple fanboy and keep a straight face.

Does Apple charge a price premium? Yes. Is it worth it? I certainly think so. Why?

Because Apple takes care of you. You have a problem, they fix it. I've had two reasons to make calls to Apple support. The first, they shipped a replacement part right away. I had it within two days, and it was easy to install. The second time, they had me come in to an Apple store to replicate the problem for them. They saw, and immediately ordered me a new logic board, at no cost to me.

I've never had that kind of service before from anyone, not even Lenovo, who are legendary for their amazing support.

Oh, and regarding the RAM prices: $1000 is 4 times $250, not 5 times. It's that much more for two main reasons. First, the modules themselves are laptop SO-DIMMs. Not only is DDR3 not as widely available in laptop size, but the small size of laptop modules make it more expensive to get a certain amount of storage per module. Second, 4GB modules of any type of RAM- even DDR2 desktop RAM- are exorbitantly expensive. Laptop modules ratchet up the price even more. Add DDR3, and that's only a greater premium. So, it's not just senseless markup.

If liking to use OS X for normal use makes me an Apple lover, then by all means, consider me guilty. But first, read this comment, and think it through. Apple isn't a Sony, charging extra for no additional benefits over comparable products. Apple adds value, not only in the quality of design and construction of their products, but also in post-purchase support.

I don't feel like most of the people here are looking at Mac's fairly.

Why don't I like them?
* Compatibility - Most if not all of my games will not run on a Mac. I am a gamer and this is above all else the most important thing when I look at a system.

That is pretty much the only reason I don't like them. People say price is their biggest issue but honestly, unless you are looking at upgrades, the prices are too bad when compared to other high end gear such as a Zune vs iPod or a Envy vs Mac Book.

The little premium that is there is more then made up for by their clean style. I love the all aluminum silver Mac Book and I also love the carbon fiber Envy. I would buy the Envy over the Mac Book any day though.

What would have to happen to get me to buy a Mac? Well honestly, if the Tablet/Netbook rumors are true, I might just buy one but other then that, I would need to dual boot a Mac Book for me to even consider it. Productivity on OSX with entertainment (ie. gaming) on Windows.

Nehalem Xeons aren't out yet.

Macs have a lot wrong with them:
Over priced in the first place.
Over priced upgrades.
Using ECC memory when it's not needed.
Lack of real gpu's, the 8800gt just doesn't cut it now.
IMO they are not that nicely built and don't look terribly good (flame on people).
The Apple image.

The fact that apple try to limit what you can use OSX on
Saying "we're so compatible you can use windows with us" isn't right when they restrict OSX to mac branded systems, it's unfair on other companies.
Can you imagine the uproar that would start if MS limited use of Windows to pcs that MS built itself? That would be crazy, it's only because macs have a smaller market share that Apple get away with it.

Why is Toms trying to defend Apple so bad?
Been a lot of pro-mac talk recently, which is always rejected by the readers.

And I love building my own pc, Apple take the fun out of that.

Is it the pricing? Yes, their upgrades are far too expensive, and from what I've been able to get my hands on, they're no-name parts. You can almost always build a better system than what Apple offers, running Vista Ultimate for $400, cheaper than any equivalent they have for sale.

Is it the software? Yes, Apple often touts they have all of this fancy software that's just "the greatest thing since sliced bread" bundled with OSX. If you buy any pre-built computer with Windows on it, go figure it has a bunch of software that's just "the greatest thing since sliced bread" and it all still is terrible software. It's bundled cause it's the easiest way to get shovelware out to the end user.

Is it the operating system? Yes, after having used Windows and Linux for quite some time, I've found Linux is best suited for specific types of servers, and Windows is best suited for desktops. Apple really has no place in either one. It's like a Linux desktop that is a crapped out version of Windows, the worst of both worlds.

Is it the compatibility? It's always fun to need to use a program, that's been well established in Windows, only to have to compromise and find some lame knock-off that's compatible with OSX.

Is it Mac users? They all seem to be pretty smug, uptight, irritating schmucks in my opinion. There's of course people who are forced to use it, as it's the industry standard. Pixar could be one good example of an industry standard of CG animation and movie production. They use Macs religiously, and go figure, while it was beginning its major productions, it was owned by Steve Jobs.

Or is it simply that it's Apple? This is also a frustrating point, as Apple tends to adopt the idea of "function follows form" meaning they'd rather make something that sucks, but is pretty, over the idea of "form follows function" in that something works absolutely great, but looks like a dog has been chewing on it for a few years. I'd much rather have something that works good, fast, functions well, and is easy to use, but looks like its been driven over several times, rather than something that's tiny and cute, but works like a blind deaf retarded one-armed four year old made it.

Oh where to start?

"Is it the pricing?"
Nah, doesn't bug me.

"Is it the software?"
Anything but...

"Is it the operating system?"
I think this can safely fall under the same category as software for the purposes of my answer...

"Is it the compatibility?"
In the day and age of virtualization you probably should slap yourself for even including this one as a potential gripe. This hasn't applied to Macs for a few years now, but considering the limited hardware choices Hackintosh users have.

"Is it Mac users?"
Some of them are annoying, but less so than rabid, underinformed/misinformed hacks.

"Or is it simply that it's Apple?"
See above.

As for claims of Apple charging more for upgrades such as a 1TB hard drive, welcome to the real world. For reference let's take a pair of comparable machines from HP and Dell:

HP IQ800t series
Nice 25.5" screen
Starts at just under $1800
No 8GB option offered at any price (void that warranty, and hold your breath b/c HP is not well known for quality)
1TB storage will run you another $180.

For a machine running a 9600M GS (Yeah, not even the GT) graphics option (add $40), and the best CPU this thing will take (T8400 [2.26GHz, 3MB) you have to add another $100.

The net result is that the base price is really much closer to $2000.

For the same price you could just get the iMac 24" 2.96GHz and I'd probably upgrade the video for $150 or $200 (depending on which upgrade you choose). Mac tax...hardly. The net result is a much faster machine with the option to upgrade to twice the memory down the road.

Now let's see what Dell is offering: The XPS ONE 24" Starts at *gasp* just under $1900 if you don't want intel graphics. Again, this thing features laptop graphics, though a reasonably modern 9600GT.

Dell made an interesting call and went with a 2.33GHz Quad-Core lappy chip, which is really nice for multi-taskers and people who run software that is well threaded. Kudos Dell, but a choice to go to a higher-clocked dual-core would have been nice. Speaking of no choices, you're again left with 4GB as the only memory choice.

So here's my ideas:

1) For anyone who's ever watched Star Trek, you know what a 'Holodeck' episode is, but for those that don't it's essential a device that can be summed up as a virtual reality room. It essential was a lazy writer's dream because they could just dream up any scenario for any genre and take their characters their via this device. In tech journalism (or hackery in this case) the equivalent is Mac hate and Mac tax.

2) It's no big secret that vendors mark up the prices of hardware upgrades. Apple's 1TB upgrade (from 640GB found on all but the lowest iMac) is much less than HP's, and Dell doesn't even offer choices here! Both companies are getting away with murder as presently newegg.com shows 1TB drives at ~$90 and up. Imagine what quantity discounts get Apple/HP/Dell.

3) As for giving you guys some click-through by looking via your store, I'll pass.

all of the above mentioned reasons

the company, the ads, the users . . are all so damn smug and condescending it makes me ill, you get the sense they are desperate to avoid doing whatever the masses doing, that using Apple is some sort of lifestyle statement that they are superior to the rest of us Neanderthals struggling along in the PC world. The whole thing is wrongheaded and disingenuous, there is nothing superior about it except the style. What finesses and simplicity it offers over the PC is a trade off for compatibility with the wide world of PC software and hardware.

The worst of it is that they aim to present an image of being hip and with it, but it's simply bogus - it's a WASTE of resources (your money nakedly into their pocket) for which you get nothing truly hip or advanced at all EXCEPT the style and you would think that the really hip wouldn't want to be perceived as paying good money for nothing but appearances. The (according to the experts) bogus 'greenest' campaign appears to be an effort to stave off the inevitable backlash against buying style over substance. If the machine is really all that green than a self-respecting hipster could imagine he or she is justifying the expense by being environmentally responsible, heck, we should pay ANY price to save the planet, right? - Give me a break! The groups which monitor this kind of thing, Greenpeace and Ceres, rate Apple WAY behind other PC makers on the Green scale and Apple refuses to even open up and show their actual methods to these groups to get properly evaluated! This is all explained in the current edition of MacWorld BTW.

The only real advantage to having a Mac is relative freedom from viruses and spyware but if you are really worried about that just get Linux.

Close as possible to Apple spec:

NehalemEP (2 x 2.66) Rumored 577.98
Supermicro X8DTL-i Nehalem-EP 350
Silverstone OP1000 229.99
Crucial 6gb ddr3 1333 ECC 153
Case - Cooler Master Cosmos 1000 189
WD Caviar Green WD6400AACS 69.99
BFG Geforce 9500 GT (~= GT120) 69.99
Microsoft Laser Wireless Desktop (kb/m) 31.99
Samsung 22x DVD+-RW 24.99
Creative X-Fi Titanium PCI-E Pro 124

Price: $1820.93
Everything from newegg when possible, mobo priced at acmemicro (only hit I got on dp NehalemEP. Processor prices (2x 2.66ghz since it's the slowest EP intel advertises) found on wordpress since they're not actually released yet.

The big glaring suckage in the Apple Spec system is the graphics (big surprise there eh?) - first change I'd make - switch that ancient (well rebadged ancient) board for a decent GTX295 and STILL be a grand cheaper than the MAC.

Price comparison

Mac (some how special) cost more
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] -_-Product

Asus laptop with greater performance for the price
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6834220395

Asus laptop $1,149.99
bigger HD
better video card
more memory
cost 700 less

Mac $1,899.00
slightly better lcd
shiny
weights 1 lb less
DRR3 (won't make a difference with the cpu)

The differences are minor besides the cost

I'm in complete agreement with pretty much all the above. Honestly, I don't see the what's so great about OSX. Frankly, it's unintuitive as all get-out IMO. And WTF is with dragging/dropping a removable drive/card to the trash can before you can remove it? Just let me take it out for God's sake! What a giant PitA. Mac OSX is pretty and that's about it.

And quality control over hardware? Apple should worry about their OS and let other manufacturers make the machines - just like PC's. Let those manufacturers worry about hardware tech support. If Apple did that, their market share would multiply like rabbits in the spring. If elitists want to buy Apple hardware, let them throw their money away so they can say they own a "true" Mac. To each their own. Me? I'd build my own and be more proud of that machine than anything that has an Apple emblem on it.

That is, if I even had a use for a Mac...which I don't.

There hardware seem to break allot more than my pc hardware. For the record my work gave me a mac book pro that has broken twice in the 4 months I have had it. I have a compaq that I got on sale for $400US, 5 years ago, and it works like a champ. The amount of productivity I have lost do to the hardware makes me dead set to never buy a mac personally.
However, the UI is the far the most polished Unix that I have used. To bad they screwed it up by remapping the command/meta/window key to do everything in there UI, but all the unix tools still use control. I remap caplocks to ctrl or command, but it is madding to try and configure all them to use the other. So now I go back using ubuntu to development on :-/.

Few simple reasons:

1) Price (overpriced, same hardware inside, yes actually you are a PC)

2) Smug users (aka retards that cant work windows, ONLY exception to this rule is when OSX is needed for things like Final Cut, etc)

3) Please write your own OS (UNIX with a face lift doesn't really count) before you bash other OSes (this is why they switched to UNIX cuz OS 9 blows goats)

they are heavily overpriced, and game availability is virtually non-existent. and nobody try and counter that by saying call of duty 4 is on mac too. next to none of the games i play are on mac, and why buy one if you're going to run windows in a VM to play the games? but aside from all this, the apple users really irritate me. they have this mentality that they're better than everyone because they use apple computers. They also like to cherry pick their facts so that apple looks like the greatest tech company ever to exist. But what really bothers me is their mac vs pc ads. 99.999% of what they say is not even true. there are two that really stick out in my mind. first, the one where the pc guy has a webcam taped to his head, and they say that all apple computers have one built in. the reality is, which laptop doesn't? and alot of desktop monitors also have one built in. Second, the one where the pc guy freezes and then restarts. This one is particularly annoying because windows hasn't done that since probably windows 3.1. How is it fair to compare such an old obviously inferior OS to something like OSX, which still has its fair share of stability issues. that's what really bothers me. But the actual software isn't so bad. i wouldn't mind trying it, but i would never waste my money on an actual apple computer. i'd only ever use a hackintosh, or use OSX if apple allowed it to be legally installed on a pc.

I'm definitely not defending Apple, if you read my QOTD article through. I was pointing where Apple is clearly pricing its products way beyond the norm. I didn't outright say Apple is junk in the article, but you can clearly see the points I made. We also recently published an article about some guy's iPod Touch exploding and burning his leg--not good for Apple's image I'd reckon.

Also, i'm trying to ask people specifically what they don't like, not what they like. I'm making sure that people get the chance to post their opinions and I'm not moderating or censoring anything either--save for insulting comments.

/ Tuan

For me, Apple killed my Mac experience by making the lower-end Macs so crappy. I had to use eMacs for school, because that was all we had, and needless to say, it was a piece of junk. I didn't always hate Apple though. There was a time when I praised Apple for its simple and functional design - circa 2004.

I was given a white Core 2 Duo Macbook to use during my last semester of high school. While the battery life impressed me, everything else did not. Trying to play a simple YouTube video stressed the GMA 950 - and my Windows laptop didn't break a sweat, and it was on GMA 950 too! Other things about the Mac OS X didn't impress me either, like its inconsistency and lack of customizeability.

Lastly, Apple itself and its users disgust me. They seem to think that only way they will get more users is to provide false information - and engage in a smear campaign when Microsoft has not done such a thing for many years. It seems to me that Apple users are the obvious aggressors - always spamming boards with hateful comments, disrespecting Windows/Linux users, and ridiculing everything else for its so-called imitation of Macs (GIZMODO, anyone?). Those guys really, really piss me off. To me, Windows users seem very docile - and only fire back when attacked. Of course, there are exceptions on both sides, but predominantly, Apple and its users are my biggest detriment.

When Apple stops its smear campaign, I will perhaps look into using Macs. But by then, I'm sure the damage is irreparable.