Huawei reportedly facing bad AI chip yields for processors made at Chinese fab SMIC: Report

AI Accelerator
(Image credit: Huawei)

Huawei is encountering significant difficulties in expanding the production of its Ascend 910B AI processors due to insufficient yields at Semiconductor Manufacturing International Co. (SMIC), reports Chosun.biz, a Korean business daily. This impacts Huawei's ability to develop its artificial intelligence business and highlights China's inability to be self-sufficient in terms of advanced chip manufacturing. 

The Ascend 910B, Huawei's second-generation AI processor, was designed to substitute for Nvidia's AI processors (primarily A100), which dominated over 90% of the Chinese market. However, production efficiency remains extremely low, as only 20% of chips that SMIC produces operate as intended.

U.S. sanctions are exacerbating these issues by restricting the supply of advanced wafer fab tools and spare parts for advanced DUV lithography tools that SMIC already has. Consequently, maintenance and repair of manufacturing equipment have become problematic, the report says. SMIC lacks sufficient engineers to manage and maintain its semiconductor machinery. Additionally, global equipment suppliers, wary of U.S. sanctions, are reluctant to service advanced machines sold in China, leading to more frequent equipment failures and defective chips. 

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Anton Shilov
Contributing Writer

Anton Shilov is a contributing writer at Tom’s Hardware. Over the past couple of decades, he has covered everything from CPUs and GPUs to supercomputers and from modern process technologies and latest fab tools to high-tech industry trends.

  • The Historical Fidelity
    20% yield rates sounds about right.
    Reply
  • The Historical Fidelity
    izmanq said:
    hmm, is this fact, or just opinion, huawei is selling all those large amount of mobile phone with 20% yield ?
    Yes the yields are that bad, Huawei is heavily subsidized by the CCP.
    Reply
  • zsydeepsky
    izmanq said:
    hmm, is this fact, or just opinion, huawei is selling all those large amount of mobile phone with 20% yield ?


    the yield goes down as chip size grows, for a Chip that is as large as 456mm^2, 20% yield isn't bad actually.

    as this graph represents:
    source: https://en.wikichip.org/wiki/chiplet
    Huawei's Kirin 9000S has a die size of 107mm^2, so naturally it will have maybe 3X better yield rate than this gigantic Ascend 910B chip, so if 910B can have 20% yield, then Huawei can definitely mass produce their phone SoCs with 60%+ yield, which is totally fine.
    Reply
  • nookoool
    What is tsmc/samsung etc yielding for similar size cpus?
    Reply
  • The Historical Fidelity
    nookoool said:
    What is tsmc/samsung etc yielding for similar size cpus?
    I believe the latest yield reports for TSMC indicate better than 95% for their 3nm process.
    Reply
  • zsydeepsky
    with open sources, at least Apple had their A17 chips with ~55% yield with TSMC 3nm node, but that was 1 year ago.

    https://technode.com/2023/07/17/tsmcs-3nm-yield-rate-reportedly-just-55-with-apple-only-paying-for-qualified-circuits/
    with that yield rate (obviously not ideal for TSMC, compared to other nodes), TSMC's price per wafer upped by 22% six months later, so I would guess that even if yield improves it would still be lower than their initial expectation.

    https://www.tomshardware.com/tech-industry/newer-chips-are-rapidly-becoming-far-more-expensive-tsmcs-average-wafer-price-jumped-22-in-one-year-and-nearly-all-semiconductor-industry-growth-now-comes-from-more-expensive-products
    I couldn't find the size of A17 chip...but A15, which is 107 mm^2, is almost identical to Kirin 9000S. so if A17 shares the same size, then it's safe to say that Huawei enjoys a similar yield compared to Apple.
    Reply
  • The Historical Fidelity
    zsydeepsky said:
    with open sources, at least Apple had their A17 chips with ~55% yield with TSMC 3nm node, but that was 1 year ago.

    https://technode.com/2023/07/17/tsmcs-3nm-yield-rate-reportedly-just-55-with-apple-only-paying-for-qualified-circuits/
    with that yield rate (obviously not ideal for TSMC, compared to other nodes), TSMC's price per wafer upped by 22% six months later, so I would guess that even if yield improves it would still be lower than their initial expectation.

    https://www.tomshardware.com/tech-industry/newer-chips-are-rapidly-becoming-far-more-expensive-tsmcs-average-wafer-price-jumped-22-in-one-year-and-nearly-all-semiconductor-industry-growth-now-comes-from-more-expensive-products
    I couldn't find the size of A17 chip...but A15, which is 107 mm^2, is almost identical to Kirin 9000S. so if A17 shares the same size, then it's safe to say that Huawei enjoys a similar yield compared to Apple.
    That’s TSMC’s original N3 process which half way through development realized was a dead end and they stopped all further refinement after reaching initial production, essentially TSMC only released N3 to fulfill contract obligations with Apple. N3E was a ground up redesign and solved many yield problems encountered with the original N3. The original risk start yield rate for N3E in 2022 was >80%, 2 years later the yield rate is ~95%.
    https://www.tomshardware.com/news/leaked-tsmc-slide-shows-n3e-yields-progressing-ahead-of-plan
    Reply
  • The Historical Fidelity
    zsydeepsky said:
    with open sources, at least Apple had their A17 chips with ~55% yield with TSMC 3nm node, but that was 1 year ago.

    https://technode.com/2023/07/17/tsmcs-3nm-yield-rate-reportedly-just-55-with-apple-only-paying-for-qualified-circuits/
    with that yield rate (obviously not ideal for TSMC, compared to other nodes), TSMC's price per wafer upped by 22% six months later, so I would guess that even if yield improves it would still be lower than their initial expectation.

    https://www.tomshardware.com/tech-industry/newer-chips-are-rapidly-becoming-far-more-expensive-tsmcs-average-wafer-price-jumped-22-in-one-year-and-nearly-all-semiconductor-industry-growth-now-comes-from-more-expensive-products
    I couldn't find the size of A17 chip...but A15, which is 107 mm^2, is almost identical to Kirin 9000S. so if A17 shares the same size, then it's safe to say that Huawei enjoys a similar yield compared to Apple.
    Also you can’t really compare the yield rates of SMIC 7nm with TSMC 3nm as 3nm is bleeding edge technology and 7nm is approaching legacy status.
    Reply
  • zsydeepsky
    The Historical Fidelity said:
    Also you can’t really compare the yield rates of SMIC 7nm with TSMC 3nm as 3nm is bleeding edge technology and 7nm is approaching legacy status.
    you think that SMIC can't improve their yield as well?
    just pointing out that whatever Huawei & SMIC were doing, they were doing them quite normally.
    you don't have to bring your political sentiment into this.
    Reply
  • The Historical Fidelity
    zsydeepsky said:
    you think that SMIC can't improve their yield as well?
    just pointing out that whatever Huawei & SMIC were doing, they were doing them quite normally.
    you don't have to bring your political sentiment into this.
    I didn’t, but you are clearly biased enough to think I was. Facts are facts, and comparing yield rates of 3nm to 7nm is apples to oranges.
    Reply