Nice Shot! No upgrades for you guys. Maybe if you didn't try to sue MS.... this could of been avoided. I guess it has come to the point where companies have restrictions on what they can put on their own software.

EU finally finished a lawsuit against a dieing browser and this is what happens. Well Europe is probably used to getting everything last anyways with complications.

Great job EU, you've screwed over yourselves.

I've never had a system that was stable after an upgrade so I only do full installs.

I count 1^, 2^, 3^ morons in this thread. Yes, it's the consumers fault that the EU sued them.

How is this a bad thing for anyone? Microsoft will get more more money and consumers more stable system. It's a win-win

I was gonna make clean install anyway since got win xp so.. meh

Nah, this didnt do anything to the EU aside from give them a better version of MS for an upgrade price! Now they just get a better deal.

Most european citizens (me included) think the whole lawsuit thing is just as crazy and ridiculous as you do. 99.9% probably don't care at all or even know what's going on, though.

I guess I'd better load up Firefox Portable on a USB key *before* I reformat and install Win7 on the only computer in the house, then.. Otherwise my system will be permanently offline and I'll have to buy a new system with XP or Vista on it and then transfer Firefox from that I guess... Or maybe the days when ISPs sent CDs with browsers when you signed up are about to return... I thought Windows7 was about a cleaner, easier experience...?

Maybe there's some command line based FTP client in there to get a browser downloaded. But then the makers of FlashFXP would probably also sue MS...Wonder if they can even keep the command prompt in there. Aren't there companies making virtual DOS environments for Windows? How are people going to discover their products when Windows already comes with a command line interface?

The Windows8 EU version should just be a black screen, everything else has to be coded in using machine language.



Yeah, also more expensive. Vista Ultimate cost about twice as much in the EU compared to the US. Normally the EU Ripoff Tax™ is only about 30%.

lol kinda funny. Don't buy into Liberalism. VAT is evil.

I'm from Europe and I will totally pirate the hell out of the upgradable version of Windows 7, so who screwd over who now? lolz

The people that actually buy their copy...

How do you think any business makes up for loss of money due to stolen products, they charge the people who wont steal it more. This was probably already taken into consideration before they set the prices.

This is awesome, serves 'em right.

And yes I know that an enthusiast can easily procure a browser without IE, but let's see the backlash from the common user when their OS doesn't have a browser.

Browser ??.What browser,you just have to make sure that your hdd is partitioned,[you do partition your hdd now,don't you??..]
Then all you need do is create a partition called stores or some such and keep on it all YOUR stuff like your free anti spyware,search & destroy, etc,,,.your free anti virus,Avira,,comes to mind,and your free firewall Comodo f'r instance,,including a copy of your favourite non MS browser,, hell it's a no brainer..

I don't think this has to do with ensure "quality", but the lack of skills at microsoft, who don't know how to make anything.

Obv you the grandmaster of the universe should just rewrite the code for the os all by yourself.

I was kinda hoping they would charge us full price for the upgrades - so we'd help them pay their (unfairly awarded) fine back to us.

The inconvenience is neglible really, as most professionals don't use the upgrade feature anyway (mostly it went wrong with 2000, xp and vista - why should it not on win7!)

Well I think us Europeans can handle such a minor inconvenience ... At least where I live the only people still using IE are those that don't know how to install anything else. And they're not going to do a windows install by themselves so what's the big deal ? Also the only people that actually pay for windows around here, are those that get it with a new computer. I bet no home user withing 100 miles is going to run to the store to get the new windows version once it's out.. upgrade or not. Haven't you heard ? it's all online now .... ))

As an American I am shame from the nationalistic and hateful comments made so far. Just because MS is an American company they don't deserve that kind of blind support. Their actions against EU so far has been very short sighted. Here is why:

So the EU power users will get a full version of Windows 7 for the price of upgrade without the biggest security hole in Windows called IE. On the other hand USA power users will buy upgrade only version with IE. So if you system crashes and you need to re-install you have to install old OS, then patched and then re-install Windows 7. (I think I read that Windows 7 upgrade will not work like old XP where you need to insert the old Windows 2000 CD in order to install it.) For power user installing browser of their choice is not a problem and the average users that might have problem with that never will attempt to upgrade Windows in the first place. They will pay the OEM for that. So called inconvenience that you have to backup your data before full install is bogus. I hope that readers of this site have common sense to backup their data before they start the upgrade. The only problem is the time to re-install your applications, but guess what MS not guaranty that you not have to re-install them after the upgrade either.
So, I think the US users are getting the short stick here.

If MS some how insert some kind of check that required that old OS is installed in order start the install for EU users that have paid only upgrade price, but Windows Installer can’t perform the actual upgrade they just going to open new case that will allow the EC to fine them again, because they effectively will sell the Upgrade version that can’t do the upgrade.

I smell another EU lawsuit of MS coming up

Well if you didn't want to break anyone's software, why do you recommend upgrading? It is a recipe for breaking applications, just common sense.
And if you really didn't want to break anything, why didn't MS planned to include Firefox and or other browsers as the EU wanted, not made mandatory! Of course the verification of existing licences won't get much discount. This is the way MS works.
Bringing out new versions of Windows and try to make everybody to upgrade. Again and again.

I don't really understand why it would be so hard to uninstall IE when doing the upgrade, therefore no IE will be present on the system. Maybe this is why I am not a programmer

What's to stop us ordering the US version and installing that?

Why was it such a big deal to have IE bundled with 7.. Apple does it with safari.. You kinda need a browser to get to the browser you want. I used IE to get firefox. This is crazy to me...

"......we don't want the customer on the phone with support,” said Mike Ybarra, general manager of Windows Product Management, to the gadget blog."

Words speak for itself

I don't understand why people want the stupid upgrade so bad? I would rather have the full version for the upgrade price anyway because I would never do an upgrade without a full install ever. I think Europe gets the better deal if they end up get full versions for upgrade prices.

That's just for my home box because I game and os upgrade bugs are not worth the time saved.

And yes I have Vista but I do not want to deal with the upgrade install restrictions every time I want to reformat down the road.

But now if the full versions of 7 don't come with IE at the start that's just going to make things even more of a pain in the ass so i might just deal with vista for a while until they get this crap straight.

I have had such a horrible experience with vista overall I don't know if i'm going to try 7 right when it comes out because I have so little faith in microsoft at this point.

Well, the users posting comments about everyone in the EU getting what they deserve is a little ridiculous. It wasn't the people; it was their mentally-unstable elected officials.

The same could be said about the United States. I assure you we aren't all as stupid as our politicians make us out to be.

I would say Microsoft is, in a sense, rebelling against the EU a little bit on this one, for all the right reasons. "You mean if we include our IE, we have to include a bunch of unassociated products as well? ...Okay, we won't include IE. See how far that gets you." It's a little childish, but it's probably the only way to get those EU officials to realize why their lawsuit was incredibly stupid. I'm looking forward to seeing how this one pans out in the future.

MS should be charging them the FULL PRICE for the full version. They would get what they asked for.

Recently they banned the import of seals because they dont like the way we kill them (humanly), but they still torture ducks to make some foie-gras. It goes to show the hypocrisy of their leaders...

So MS should fight back and get every cent of what they have been fined to. Someone need to show those slackers who the boss is.

I'm an EU citizen and the last MS vs EU battle was a joke.
Let me just state this. For those that remember, back in the days when Netscape existed (you know, the one that started it all), it made sense to sue Microsoft for one and one only reason.
That one reason was that the NET was still not popular enough and there weren't that many devices outside pcs that could ride the waves. There was no one caring for standards, and Microsoft with its huge user base
saw the opportunity of using IE as a way to take and hold the Internet forever with their proprietary formats. Their intention was that in the future people would have to resolt to Microsoft proprietary formats in whatever platform. Microsoft mistake was to tie their formats to their system in a strategy of "If you want to get the best of the web you need to use a microsoft based platform"
That is why ActiveX was first created (only compatible with MS Oses) and one of the reasons MS tried so hard for their Word formats to become standard. Microsoft had some sucess but probably not as much as they expected. Standards have become way more important and the fact is Microsoft strategy of building formats tied to thei OSes and that were not cross-platform compatible back fired on them as
other companies like Adobe took a hold of the net with Adobe Flash and the rise of the net applications like Google Docs, Gmail and so on. They did have some sucess making Windows Media Video one of the most widly used video formats on the web for streaming.
The format wars is not over but the big browser war is. People want to access everything everywhere so they demand every company to build support for any kind of device or else that format will simply die.
Thus a browser is no longer "the mean" to fight the big battle. Any browser should provide all the basic features so that websites can be reached in any device, so we can no longer have "IE only" sites. Or ActiveX embed objects that run only on Microsoft OSes.
What you need is formats that run anywhere.
That is why this MS vs EU battle is a joke. No one cares if IE is the default browser or not. Actually other OSes also use the same strategy of bundling one browser as default.
MS knows well that what people demand today is to have "something" that allows surfing the web out of the box.
MS also knows that the browser is unimportant today. They know that people will use the pre-bundled browser just as a means to get to their prefered browser site and download another one.

The thing is the browser no longer can be used to gain a monopoly. It is as important as say Notepad.
MS strategy is clear. Remove IE from Windows 7 and wait for the european customer rage against the EU for not having a means to surf the web by default.
The EU knows well that having no browser is worst, but obviously it can not demand MS to have competitors browsers in the OS simply because it will only open the door for one rightfull questiong from MS.
"What browsers should we put on then? and why those and not others?"
It is an embarasing situation for the EU now and just shows has so many times the decision makers are out of pace of what is actually happening in the market.

1-EU never asked MS to unbundle IE, they asked MS to either offer alternatives or remove it.

2-MS has just accepted to offer alternatives through a multi-choice popup window appearing at first startup of Windows 7

3-Consumers win. No need to thank us.