John Carmack No Longer Enthused About AMD's Mantle?
Mantle would be a good thing for AMD if all three platforms support the API.
While speaking on a panel at Nvidia's "Way It's Meant to be Played" event in Montreal, John Carmack talked about AMD's Mantle API, stating that it would be very "powerful" for AMD if Sony and Microsoft decide to adopt the technology. If not, and Mantle remained a PC-only tech as AMD now describes, then he would have very little interest in it.
"Mantle is unique. AMD has talked many times in the past about doing 'close to the metal' architectures, and it only became interesting because of their dual console wins," Carmack said. "The landscape does matter because they have both major console wins with similar architectures that you can get on the PC."
"If it was just a way to do, on the PC, lower-level [coding] I couldn't have cared less," he added. "If I was still doing all of the major tech coding, I probably would not be embracing Mantle right now. But there would be days where it would be extremely tempting."
In addition to Carmack, Epic Games' Tim Sweeney and DICE's Johan Andersson were on the stage answering questions as well. Later during the talk, all three were asked about their thoughts on other developers following AMD's lead by creating their own APIs. All three agreed that it would be a bad idea.
"It's the wrong direction for the industry to go," Sweeney answered. "If you'd ask me if I'd much rather have a low level API for accessing the GPU, the answer is yes. But five of them, for different hardware, vendors and operating systems? Absolutely not."
Andersson said it would be a bad future if Nvidia, Intel and Qualcomm developed their own APIs. Carmack gave an unequivocal no. "It would be a horrible mistake if Nvidia got panicked by this and made some lower level API as you already have good low-level access through Nvidia's GPU extensions," said Carmack.
Previously, wording provided by AMD led to the assumption that the Mantle API would address not only many Graphics Core Next-based GPUs and APUs on the "metal" level, but the GCN-based APUs found in the Xbox One and PlayStation 4. This would, in theory, allow developers to create games for all three platforms more easily, and implement similar AMD-driven features across all three versions. Microsoft said the Xbox One wouldn't support Mantle, and AMD quickly followed up saying that the API was strictly for PC gaming development.
Follow us @tomshardware, on Facebook and on Google+.

As for Carmack, he has switched to the dark side. Not long ago he touted consoles as better than PC.
He is another lost soul.
As for Carmack, he has switched to the dark side. Not long ago he touted consoles as better than PC.
He is another lost soul.
Eventually, the hardware within these same nex-gen consoles will begin to struggle and show signs of age. I believe that's when Mantle will be embraced as a genuine blessing to game devs.
I am certain that discussed and written in to certain contracts are clauses forbidding API's such as Mantle on the XBox One and PS4. Neither MS nor Sony would willingly give over that level of control to of their hardware over to another party.
He doesn't like mantle but on the flip side, he said G-sync was good when one would have to invest in a new monitor just for that and it is also limited to PC. Mantle is open and so nVidia can implement it if they want to, just like AMD can implement something that works with G-sync. Ugh.
"If you'd ask me if I'd much rather have a low level API for accessing the GPU, the answer is yes. But five of them, for different hardware, vendors and operating systems? Absolutely not."
It's obvious that Carmack has been out of the game for awhile. If a company has time to implement PhysX, TressFX, proprietary SSAO and AA, and other tech that only works on one card type, then they definitely have the time to implement a performance api. I guess he really should have said "Only if we get paid a little extra on the side". These APIs are optional, amd doing this has no effect on anything if a dev decides not to implement this. Even if Nvidia were to come out with their own api, devs can choose to use neither.
I don't know why someone would even ask these questions in a nvidia convention. It's like going to a republican convention and asking them for their opinion on a new democrat based bill that extends the government.
I agree, this was a nVidia event so, come on, did anyone think the panel would wave the AMD flag.
MS said XBONE is not supporting Mantle is not XBONE will never support Mantle.
Let's see how this holiday season sales go and hear user feedback on how good the new consoles are.
.
I don't want nVidia to go out of business, competition is always good.
The way they meant to be payed to though and talk. They might be great names in PC gaming but they still have POCKETS TO FILL.
Mantle will be great to anyone have optimizations for XBOX or PS4 and wanted to pass those optimizations on to PC. No way to do it with simple DX11.
However MS would never support something like this. Its in MS' core DNA, they DO NOT like to use any open or standards based technology if they don't absolutely have to. Direct X was their proprietary version of Open GL, Silvelight their Flash, proprietary wireless "standards" for the xbox 360 controller, Active X for IE, the list goes on (and that's without going into the business space at all).
MS would rather eat its own poo then allow the use of something like Mantle.
As for why Sony is not using it on PS4 I have no explanation other than a tin-foil resoning that MS might have exerted some sort of financial pressure on AMD post the Mantle unveilling event where they -clearly- hinted that it was for GCN *and* consoles alike... and then a couple of weeks later: "oops, what we meant by 'PC and Consoles' was actualy just PC, mkay"
And i think that mantle will be implemented in consoles anyway, maybe not this or the next year. Nobody still knows how big can the improvement be. But i bet on AMD/ATI, they are slow but very efficient when implementing in new GPU technologies/architechtures.
FYI none of them were paid to show up. They showed up for Gsync. Which for the other poster, can't be done by AMD. They have to come up with their own, or maybe at some point NV will license it (doubt it for at least years, it will sell their cars for a while, the feature sells itself).
Also note MS will not support mantle (nor sony) as it makes it easier to port something AWAY from their consoles. Why would I help you have a great game experience without needing my console? That's just retarded business practices. They won't do it no matter what. It would be akin to MS supporting a tech themselves that with one click would allow a game MS published to be ported to linux in minutes...ROFL. NEVER HAPPEN (that's the whole point of having DIRECTX! HARD TO LEAVE WINDOWS). IF some tech like that came along it will be immediately blocked by ALL consoles (nin,sony,ms), just like Mantle. Think of it as "heck no you can't have fun OFF our consoles...you NEED US ONLY!". Get it?
The thing that enrages me is that the current hardware has the possibility to be even much faster but corporations like Sony and MS get in the way of things for profit, this thing is just like living in one of those SciFi movies where corporations control our lives...
I don't understand Carmack, when he was developing Tech 5 and mega texture, he was bemoaning about lack of low level access to GPU on PC compared to consoles, about latency problem as the result of it. Now he is mostly doing Android stuff and Oculus Rift, and now he can care less about low level access on PC? Does that sound a bit too convenient? Is he still relevant in coding side of PC gaming?