Conclusion
Comparing an Intel Core 2 Duo E8500 3.16 GHz desktop processor and an AMD Phenom X4 9350e 2.0 GHz high-efficiency quad core CPU for HTPCs or similar solutions isn’t really an apples to apples shootout. Given that, it’s important not to take this article as a general recommendation against purchasing a Phenom X4, or as a recommendation for the Core 2 Duo. Personal preferences aside, we found the comparison important, as we’re certainly not the only people wondering if a low-power quad core processor at average clock speeds might actually be a better choice than a fast dual core processor. Using an Intel low-power quad core for comparison would have been great, but such a product does not (yet) exist, hence the recommendation for supplying a low-power 65 W quad core processor go to AMD.
Fair or Unfair?
We could have used a faster Phenom X4 processor, as you can get either the 2.0 GHz 9350e or a 2.4 GHz Phenom X4 9750 for the same $200. The latter would have the Phenom win the majority of the benchmarks, and if you’re looking for performance, this is probably the best thing you can do—the quad core Core 2 processors are clearly more expensive. Yet we wanted to use a quad core that comes as close as possible to the currently best dual core processor. The efficiency that remains with the 9350e, and the 65 W power cap in particular, were lost if we had used a mainstream Phenom.
Core 2 Duo Wins
The Core 2 Duo Wolfdale at 3.16 GHz proved that its architecture is capable of competing with a quad core processor that runs average clock speeds, and it proved that it offers far better power efficiency. The Core 2 Duo matched or surpassed the performance of the Phenom X4 9350e, but this is the time to stop and consider another factor. At this point it would be unfair to declare Core 2 Duo the undisputed winner, as the test methodology shows a constraint that isn’t AMD’s fault: the Phenom X4 9350e and other quad core processors are handicapped by the software landscape, which still isn’t really optimized for four or even more cores. Some applications are, but apart from that, it’s the synthetic benchmarks that provide proof of quad cores actually being faster. Still, that advantage does not translate into our everyday lives.
Software Reworks Required!
The example of WinRAR (thread-optimized) versus WinZIP (single threaded compression process) makes very obvious which software vendors do and do not tweak their applications to take advantage of more than two cores. AVG Anti Virus, Fritz 11 Chess, the Mainconcept 1.5.1 H.264 encoder, SiSoft Sandra XII and Supreme Commander are all examples showing that a 2.0 GHz quad core can certainly beat a sophisticated 3.16 GHz dual core.
Of course, there will always be applications that do not scale well with an increasing core count, and AMD has a long way to go if it wants to get back on top and compete with Intel’s processors. Core 2 is clearly superior in apples to apples comparisons, and it also beats the Phenom X4 in this comparison for the reasons mentioned above. One fact remains clear above all: our comparison has shown that the time for quad core processors just hasn’t arrived yet.
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good work on getting the benchmarks out. but a better comparison would be amd quad vs amd dual. due to the fact that amd has the only real quad core. I think most if not all of us know that most apps aren't ready to scale well up to a full quad proc. keep in mind that amd has four ACTUAL cores on their procs, not two logiced out to four as intel does. Get programs that are fully optimized to run on four acutal cores, the benchmarks will change quite a bit. I honestly don't recommend a quad core to anyone for the price at this point in time unless they plan on keeping their computer upwards of at least 4 years due to the fact that software takes too long to catch up to hardware. Multi core scaling on the software side just isn't there yet. Look to amd's dual core offerings for a good price/performance ratio at this point in time.
but none the less... it's good to have some charts at this current point in time. thanks for the time put on the benchies... i'll click a sponsor or something. :-p
Just wondering if there's a little error on the game benchmarks page... the graph for Supreme Commander and the text don't seem to agree.
little nit @ second last paragraph:
"are all examples showing that a 2.0 GHz quad core can certainly beat a sophisticated 3.16 GHz quad core"
should be 3.16 GHz dual core.
The mainconcept analysis is wrong as well. Says the e8500 wins when it doesn't.
nachowarrior cut the AMD true quad core BS - 4 cores total wether it be attached or not, the performance speaks for its self, plus intel was smarter not to make one huge processor etc - same as ATi's 4870 x2 - you should know that fanboy.
LOL
If you want to get technical lets compare Intel nehalem quad - no competition
Sloppy editing alright - its making AMD look good!
Good idea, but the article is such a mess. Never seen anything like that on Toms. It needs editing, and needs it now. Shame.
I still can not concieve why they are comparing a 3.0+ dual core to a 2.0ghz quad?
What is the real point of this article?
one thing that the authors forget that a typical use for a computer isn't just decompressing, surfing or gaming. The typical use is decompressing AND surfing AND using a resource hog like Skype AT THE SAME TIME! Oh, did I hear BitTorrent or multiple YouTube flash videos? How about them fancy Flash Ads, about 3 of them in every one of those 20-30 open tabs in the browser? Why don't you compare a quad core and a dual core in such an environment for general performance and responsiveness?
Maybe in Windows the time of the Quad core or even the Duo core hasn't arrived yet, but in Linux the multicore processors have been supported for a lot longer and I wouldn't be surprised if you find many more apps in Linux that are natively multithreaded. How about rerunning your comparison in Linux and see who's the winner there where neither processor has the advantage. Both are well supported in Linux where as many of the tests in Windows lopsidedly tainted toward Intel products. In other words, try a scenario where the processors are treated equally by the testing software.
Thanks for the analysis catches, guys. They should have been, but weren't, caught during layout. I've adjusted the text to correctly reflect the benchmark results. Take care!
I don't know why, but i would like to see an amd x2 @ 3.0 ghz running around those task.... It's cheaper and im really happy with it. Nice Article.
It appears that the author is referring to the e8500 in the above statement, this would be incorrect considering the e8600 has newer stepping and a higher clock rate.
The chart shows otherwise, something maybe awry with the report.
Should be AMD Phenom X4 9350e , "e" is misplaced.
Anyway, I would have liked to see what a Phenom 9950 and q6600 would have shown given the fact that their with in the same price point and would have shown the difference in efficiency and power.
good work on getting the benchmarks out. but a better comparison would be amd quad vs amd dual. due to the fact that amd has the only real quad core. I think most if not all of us know that most apps aren't ready to scale well up to a full quad proc. keep in mind that amd has four ACTUAL cores on their procs, not two logiced out to four as intel does. Get programs that are fully optimized to run on four acutal cores, the benchmarks will change quite a bit. I honestly don't recommend a quad core to anyone for the price at this point in time unless they plan on keeping their computer upwards of at least 4 years due to the fact that software takes too long to catch up to hardware. Multi core scaling on the software side just isn't there yet. Look to amd's dual core offerings for a good price/performance ratio at this point in time. but none the less... it's good to have some charts at this current point in time. thanks for the time put on the benchies... i'll click a sponsor or something. :-p
Sure it would, but the point of this article is to compare relatively similar costing processors with similar TDPs as a quad vs dual. Plus given how AMD is losing in the performance race clock for clock it emphasis on quad-core beating dual in some applications.
If it was AMD beating AMD everyone would be "so what?". Since it was (in some cases) AMD beating Intel, most go wow. The they compared the clockspeeds and wow. That really puts pressure on quad-core's performance. Great Work guys!=)
I have done some tests on my K8 X2. Moreover, I've taken some interest in Xvid development.
- current Xvid code isn't multithreaded: it is purely single core! In fact, when I encode two videos in parallel, I get almost no speed impact from the second encoding upon the first. If you want to try a multithreaded Xvid encoder, you must compile the 1.2 CVS version.
- I bet this benchmark uses Koepi's build of Xvid 1.1.3; as far as I know, he builds it against the Pentium Pro instruction set.
- I compared Koepi's build compressing some video under Windows (32-bit) and one built directly on my K8, in Linux 64-bit + SSE2 compressing the same video: encoding speed went up by a factor of 2.5.
- ever since most Xvid developers were hired by Miro to work on Miro's MPEG4 codec, Xvid development slowed down. Many developers got interested in x264 instead.
In short, using Xvid to compare AMD and Intel processors isn't as good as it used to be. Either that, or since Xvid is one of the few very CPU-intensive benchmarks out there, you should try and build it yourselves for each platform - just to be sure. It would also be interesting to benchmark current CVS build, to see how it scales with more cores.
agree with REappear. for hardcore multitaskers, like myself, the quad is clearly a winner. a couple of msn/skype windows AND 10+tabs AND running torrent AND playing Supreme Commander -its my favorite
- on a 20x20+ map with 4-6 players does the performance hit. in this case, 2g of memory (supcom eats up between 1.3 and 1.8) and 2g of ram isn't enough anymore.
. its a wicked thing to see a q6600 reaching only 43C on a prime test.
and there is a low TDP quadcore from intel, my q6600, doing 9x266@1.008
AMD should put much more cache on their chips, in most of the benchs this is the reason why their CPU is so slow. oh, and efficient doesn't mean it should be this slow too.
2g of memory and 2 cores... sry
"One fact remains clear above all: our comparison has shown that the time for quad core processors just hasn’t arrived yet."
Uhh...duh.
I think it is appropriate to run mixed benchmark with multiple tests at the same time. The outcome can be surprising. Working on quad systems fells different than on dual core,quads much more responsive if you run multiple tasks at the same time.
Good article and outcome as expected but I must agree when conducting tests we need to run multiple apps in conjunction for a true everyday experience. I would be interested in seeing how 2xquad cores fair on some NLE video editing apps like Premier & Vegas. Can we have some test ran on Linux? .... Please? Linux is becoming more and more popular to people so this would be refreshing to see. Don't worry bout the typo's we all make mistakes, it's no big deal. No worries, Keep on ROCKn THG!!
The Silent Majority
I agree with REapper, a multi-tasking benchmark will shed much more light on real-world user concerns. I also wonder what the interest of power efficiency in desktop cores is? I know everyone wants to be green, but for most desktop users that I know, heat and power aren't that big of an issue.
When it comes to multi-cpu workstations and clusters, heat IS a issue.