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LG Chromebase is an All-in-One Running Chrome OS

By - Source: LG Electronics Press Release | B 23 comments

This is an AIO PC with Chrome OS.

LG Electronics said on Tuesday that it plans to unveil the world’s first all-in-one Chromebase at CES 2014 in January. This is essentially an all-in-one desktop that uses Google’s Chrome OS rather than Windows 8. That means the AIO PC should be cheaper given that Google doesn’t require a licensing fee for using the HTML5-based platform.

"LG’s Chromebase is an exciting new form factor that expands the options available to customers who want a fast, simple and secure computing experience for the home, school or office," said Caesar Sengupta, vice president of product management, Google. "LG Electronics makes great devices that customers love, and we’re glad to welcome them to the Chrome family."

According to the specs, this AIO PC sports a 21.5-inch IPS screen with 178-degree viewing angles and a 1920 x 1080 resolution. This screen is backed by a fourth-generation Intel Celeron “Haswell” processor, 2 GB of RAM, and a 16 GB iSSD. The new AIO also provides a 1.3MP webcam and a microphone for easy video calling.

Other Chromebase features include HDMI input, allowing owners to use the AIO as a second screen for a desktop, a laptop, or as a main screen for an Xbox One console, set-top box and more. There are also three USB 2.0 ports, one USB 3.0 port, an Ethernet port for wired networking, and a pair of built-in 5W speakers. Accessories include a keyboard, a mouse and a cable organizer.

Hyoung-sei Park, head of the IT Business Division at LG Electronics, expects the Chromebase to be widely adopted not only at home, but especially in schools, hotels, call centers and other business settings. That’s the beauty of Chrome OS: all data is stored in the cloud so that a single user can jump on any Chrome OS device and access his/her personal settings, documents and so on.

For now pricing and availability is unknown at this point, but we expect to hear and see more about this new form factor during CES 2014 in a few weeks.

Display 23 Comments.
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  • 1 Hide
    JD88 , December 18, 2013 4:57 AM
    Very cool. I could see this being used in computer labs, hotel computer rooms, and in businesses who use Google Apps. The cost of maintenance is virtually none and the hardware cost should be quite reasonable. If this is priced at $399 like I think it will be, they won't be able to keep them in stock.
  • -5 Hide
    RupertJr , December 18, 2013 5:12 AM
    Why would I want to buy this while I could get a real pc, where I can install my favorite OS and install all the apps I want plus being able to use Google tools through the browser. So I would get a fully featured AIO with many more features by almost the same price.
    Is really an enigma for me who and why someone buy this kind of thing of device.
  • 2 Hide
    JD88 , December 18, 2013 5:34 AM
    Quote:
    Why would I want to buy this while I could get a real pc, where I can install my favorite OS and install all the apps I want plus being able to use Google tools through the browser. So I would get a fully featured AIO with many more features by almost the same price.
    Is really an enigma for me who and why someone buy this kind of thing of device.



    There are many advantages to Chrome OS devices. For one, they are nearly maintenance free. No software updates, no antivirus, no malware, no spyware, no problems whatsoever. Nothing extra to buy. Also, since nearly all personal data is stored in the cloud, Chrome OS allows the same user to access multiple machines and have all of their settings and content available within 7 seconds.

    I encourage anyone to try Chrome because it really is outstanding for web browsing, word processing, content consumption, photo management, and other light to moderate uses. Is it a machine for professionals with very specific software needs? No, but for the other 90% of people and businesses it is a very smart option.
  • -3 Hide
    edwd2 , December 18, 2013 6:08 AM
    replace ssd with hard disk and allow customizable OS
  • 1 Hide
    schultzter , December 18, 2013 6:31 AM
    Quote:
    Why would I want to buy this while I could get a real pc, where I can install my favorite OS and install all the apps I want plus being able to use Google tools through the browser. So I would get a fully featured AIO with many more features by almost the same price.
    Is really an enigma for me who and why someone buy this kind of thing of device.


    Most people don't know or want to know how to install and maintain an OS. They want to plug it in, turn it on, and go to facebook or read their email or check the news. No one has ever cared about the OS. EVER!!!

    Enigma solved. Go get yourself a Coffee Crisp.
  • 0 Hide
    ojas , December 18, 2013 7:43 AM
    What's an iSSD? Integrated (soldered) SSD?
  • 2 Hide
    Innocent_Bystander , December 18, 2013 7:57 AM
    I can see the appeal for a lot of people but it's probably not for the Tom's crowd.

    IB
  • 3 Hide
    Fredrik Aldhagen , December 18, 2013 8:21 AM
    I was waiting for someone to make something like this. I personally wouldn't buy it but I think it would be great for schools (a lot of tasks that are currently done on noisy and powerhungry windows computers could be done just as well on chrome os). I hope it will be reasonably priced.
  • 2 Hide
    B4vB5 , December 18, 2013 8:36 AM
    Great news if the price is low enough! I hope for €300 in EU.

    To those who wonder who it is for, it is for all the IT/OS clueless people who just want mail/"word"/browsing and no fuss whatsoever.

    For us with IT skills and need for the custom solutions, it is also a godsent present cause all our clueless relatives won't then call constantly, asking if Norton/McAfee/Panda effed up their PC again, or if this and that and updates gone wrong and "it just died, please help" (which has been anything from screensavers to bios fail to hdd dying) etc. And it continues with, Windows licenses they cant find for reinstalls or they use a pirate Vista v.1.0 with 5000+ backdoors and bugs, or they dunno if they use Vista/XP/7 or do they even care. I will recommend all my clueless or "dont care" computer users to use chromeOS devices and AIO will appeal to them, especially since it is cheap. Till now I've recommended them iPads but most of them think its too expensive for a "small display with no keyboard".

    Sure, there is games, but those people I talk about dont game, they just a have like a cheap pc laptop cause then it doesnt take up space in their homes. Maybe they have a Wii "for bowling" but that would be it.
  • 1 Hide
    JD88 , December 18, 2013 8:43 AM
    Quote:
    Great news if the price is low enough! I hope for €300 in EU.

    To those who wonder who it is for, it is for all the IT/OS clueless people who just want mail/"word"/browsing and no fuss whatsoever.

    For us with IT skills and need for the custom solutions, it is also a godsent present cause all our clueless relatives won't then call constantly, asking if Norton/McAfee/Panda effed up their PC again, or if this and that and updates gone wrong and "it just died, please help" (which has been anything from screensavers to bios fail to hdd dying) etc. And it continues with, Windows licenses they cant find for reinstalls or they use a pirate Vista v.1.0 with 5000+ backdoors and bugs, or they dunno if they use Vista/XP/7 or do they even care. I will recommend all my clueless or "dont care" computer users to use chromeOS devices and AIO will appeal to them, especially since it is cheap. Till now I've recommended them iPads but most of them think its too expensive for a "small display with no keyboard".

    Sure, there is games, but those people I talk about dont game, they just a have like a cheap pc laptop cause then it doesnt take up space in their homes. Maybe they have a Wii "for bowling" but that would be it.


    You sir get it. And what you didn't mention is the vast majority of people fall into that category. Probably something like 90% of people could get by with Chrome OS.
  • 1 Hide
    Citizen XVIII , December 18, 2013 8:59 AM
    I've got a beast of a homebuilt desktop and a decent Windows laptop, but I still find myself grabbing my wife's Samsung Chromebook if I need to do something quick online. I can see a Chrome AIO doing very well, especially among the not tech-savvy and mass users like schools.

    And talking about schools, my wife teaches seventh grade in a school where they recently purchased enough devices for each classroom to have one per student; half the classrooms got IPads, the other half got Sammy Chromebooks. In a teacher's meeting, they asked the teachers what their preference would be if they had to choose one device to outfit the whole school with. Unanimous: Chromebooks. 1/2 the cost, little to no tech support for students, built in keyboard, & Google's productivity tools do what they need and are accessible from any machine.
  • 0 Hide
    d_kuhn , December 18, 2013 11:59 AM
    It would be a solid winner at $300... but I'll be VERY surprised if it lists for much less than $800... AIO's generally come priced surprisingly high compared to either laptops or desktops. For as limited as it is I think it won't be a good deal unless they can price it VERY aggressively.
  • 0 Hide
    JD88 , December 18, 2013 12:09 PM
    Quote:
    It would be a solid winner at $300... but I'll be VERY surprised if it lists for much less than $800... AIO's generally come priced surprisingly high compared to either laptops or desktops. For as limited as it is I think it won't be a good deal unless they can price it VERY aggressively.


    Considering the specs and IPS display, I think the target price should be around $499. Anything more is going to be a hard sell. Less would be aggressive.
  • 0 Hide
    d_kuhn , December 18, 2013 3:48 PM
    $499 wouldn't be a bad price, $400 even better. Win8 AIO's tend to run 800+ so that would be a very appealing price differential. The big concern I have regarding chromebook is that while the low-end appliance you own may be virus proof, the data center housing ALL you data is a 24x7 open attack vector. I'm not yet convinced that cloud data stores (where attackers can target millions of accounts simultaneously) are more secure than being one of a billion inconsequential specs in the web.
  • 0 Hide
    somebodyspecial , December 19, 2013 2:34 AM
    Quote:
    It would be a solid winner at $300... but I'll be VERY surprised if it lists for much less than $800... AIO's generally come priced surprisingly high compared to either laptops or desktops. For as limited as it is I think it won't be a good deal unless they can price it VERY aggressively.


    http://www.shopping.hp.com/en_US/home-office/-/products/Desktops/HP/E2P19AA?HP-Slate-21-k100-All-in-One-Desktop-PC
    HP 21in all in one. Take windows/Intel out and you save a good few hundred easily. $399 for this HP slate 21in. I'd pay another $100 if they shipped it with 2-4GB instead of 1GB for mem and 32GB-64GB for storage instead of 8GB which makes the device useless to me. I like the product, but HP needs to raise if from junk to great. It's been out for a while, but I don't see reviews...I'll wait for a T5 model that comes with more guts surrounding it (like 2-4GB main, 64GB storage). Everyone needs to write HP an email and tell them 1GB/8GB is 2011-2012 specs not 2013/2014. I can fill 8GB of storage with 3-4 games (ie, moderm combat 4 is 1.9GB, I'm sure modern 5 coming shortly will up this as it looks pretty intense for mobile).
  • 0 Hide
    Fredrik Aldhagen , December 19, 2013 9:25 AM
    Quote:

    http://www.shopping.hp.com/en_US/home-office/-/products/Desktops/HP/E2P19AA?HP-Slate-21-k100-All-in-One-Desktop-PC
    HP 21in all in one. Take windows/Intel out and you save a good few hundred easily. $399 for this HP slate 21in. I'd pay another $100 if they shipped it with 2-4GB instead of 1GB for mem and 32GB-64GB for storage instead of 8GB which makes the device useless to me. I like the product, but HP needs to raise if from junk to great. It's been out for a while, but I don't see reviews...I'll wait for a T5 model that comes with more guts surrounding it (like 2-4GB main, 64GB storage). Everyone needs to write HP an email and tell them 1GB/8GB is 2011-2012 specs not 2013/2014. I can fill 8GB of storage with 3-4 games (ie, moderm combat 4 is 1.9GB, I'm sure modern 5 coming shortly will up this as it looks pretty intense for mobile).


    That's not running Windows or Intel... It runs Android on a Tegra 4. As you say, too little RAM for a desktop system, and while I think Chrome OS could run with 8GB storage, most seem to have 16GB.

    And if you're talking games then you're missing the point of Chrome OS.
  • 0 Hide
    somebodyspecial , December 21, 2013 3:22 AM
    Quote:
    Quote:

    http://www.shopping.hp.com/en_US/home-office/-/products/Desktops/HP/E2P19AA?HP-Slate-21-k100-All-in-One-Desktop-PC
    HP 21in all in one. Take windows/Intel out and you save a good few hundred easily. $399 for this HP slate 21in. I'd pay another $100 if they shipped it with 2-4GB instead of 1GB for mem and 32GB-64GB for storage instead of 8GB which makes the device useless to me. I like the product, but HP needs to raise if from junk to great. It's been out for a while, but I don't see reviews...I'll wait for a T5 model that comes with more guts surrounding it (like 2-4GB main, 64GB storage). Everyone needs to write HP an email and tell them 1GB/8GB is 2011-2012 specs not 2013/2014. I can fill 8GB of storage with 3-4 games (ie, modern combat 4 is 1.9GB, I'm sure modern 5 coming shortly will up this as it looks pretty intense for mobile).


    That's not running Windows or Intel... It runs Android on a Tegra 4. As you say, too little RAM for a desktop system, and while I think Chrome OS could run with 8GB storage, most seem to have 16GB.

    And if you're talking games then you're missing the point of Chrome OS.


    I'm not saying Intel or Windows is in this device (I know it's T4, which is why I pointed to another T4 device showing they already have OTHER devices at 1/2 of $800). I'm explaining why the price can be $399 like the example I provided. If you take a windows lic out of a device cost, and also remove Intel as your chip you end up being able to price things well under $800. That was my point. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

    What point am I missing by mentioning games?
    https://chrome.google.com/webstore/category/app/3-games
    Need for speed etc...At some point android/chromeOS end up running the same stuff in some way shape or form IMHO (no dev wants even more platforms to develop for - I'm sure they want ONE game that runs on both). It may be a browser OS basically but that doesn't mean it will stay as a dumb cloud OS forever (with what seems to be cloud/browser games so far). I was talking T5 etc, so I'm speaking LONG term, not today. I'm not even sure I can't just take this home (as an IT guy who hacks everything I own basically...LOL) and install android today. I'm sure someone will root it etc shortly as I'm not a fan of ChromeOS due to all the limitations. I'm sure it's fine for some, and limiting to others like me. But my main point is how the hardware needs to match standards of today no matter what OS is on it in order to move the platforms forward. I would run into a needs that far surpass this device very quickly if not the day I buy it. I won't pay $400 to browse the web and get email ;)  If that makes me cheap, I'm ok with that...LOL. I want Android (or chromeOS, linux, maybe a dual or tri boot, or quad with steamos?...LOL) to put ARM in my desktop so MS/Intel will have something to FEAR. I don't want another win8 or haswell price increases on broadwell. AMD is too far behind on cpus to be a competitor now. We need ARM, and games on ARM to start a fire that leads to REAL apps on arm so 90% of us have an option other than WINTEL ;) 

    This device reminds me of china/india specs or some poor 3rd world country specs. I could be wrong about what will run on it one day, but I wasn't really talking chrome, but more about the hardware and what I want in a cheap NON WINTEL device :)  In my family nothing really stays off the shelf for more than a 72hr burn-in if you get my drift...ROFL. I would fully expect to mod the device to do what I want and run what I want (currently android over chrome as it's not a product for me right now) not too long after it gets in the house. If I can't do that, I'll find a similar device that will allow it. I was kind of hoping my first Tegra device would extend my xbox360 so to speak (anything mobile for me would be tegra for tegrazone etc games). Games won't be made for xbox360/ps3 soon, and mobile will continue the good enough games to TV for me, plus out of the house gaming, and hopefully good streaming of Maxwell to TV next year. "Good Enough" gaming is all I call a console...Real PRETTY games are only on PC for me :)  I have no intention of supporting this gen.

    How will you ever get apps made for better hardware if we keep going back in time to smaller memory/storage requirements? Kit Kat for instance, brags about running on 512MB...That is not something I'd brag about with 64bit arm on the horizon. Great that it can do that, but I would have blocked the ability to install on anything below 2-3GB forcing people to move up. Devs are waiting for consoles to sell 10mil before they jump on board. Even a big dev like Activision/Blizzard shows Bobby Kotick has fears of making something on next gen consoles as he watches for Q1 sales. It is no different here. Get the hardware out so you can get people to design for it. Most won't take the risk on developing for something hoping one day you sell enough product to warrant the investment in new software and only a big dev can wait 5-7yrs to make a profit as more consoles sell. Why do you think Gran Turismo 6 was made for ps3 instead of ps4 by sony themselves? Same story. 90million units of ps3 are in houses, while ps4 just hit 2.4mil. But it's still failing...LOL. I'm guessing it's failing because of $150 jaguar xj13 etc...If I pay $60 for a game I should be done. Sony doesn't get it ;)  Sales off 80% from GT5...Yes I just did a cartwheel in my head...ROFL. Die consoles DIE! Sony/MS can die right along with them. Microtransactions in games need to die too.

    IF you want to one day run Adobe CS 7 (CS8, whatever) on ARM, we need some larger hardware footprints to sell to. Google has the ability with their OS to force larger memory, bigger storage etc just like MS does with windows. Sure I can hack an OS (so to speak) to install on less memory, but it won't go on normally due to software flags etc and hardware makers then ship with the minimum requirements (despite what I may do on my own with a /switch or something). A few more gigs doesn't break the bank but gets hardware seeded so devs follow with software that is actually productive past browsing/email. You know, keyboard/mouse stuff so when you're in the house there is a reason to hook these up with a 24in monitor (not this AIO, I mean phones, tablets etc). I want my tablet etc to be more than a dumb device with limited uses, which IMHO is what all chromebooks are today (great for old farts or kids, useless almost to me). I see the point in a $38 tablet (about to hit Q1 from India 1ghz dual core etc) for poor people that still aren't on the web etc, but I hate that devs will aim for such a low device instead of a 64bit arm soc with 8GB ram and an 80GB SSD or something :)  I want ARM/Android etc in WINTEL's face. We will get Win98/2000/xp/win7 then instead of ME/Fista/win8 and price hikes on Intel chips. I hope this explains where I'm coming from. Pretty much MORE POWER and competition. :)  A much more powerful device can be easily made for $30-100.
  • 0 Hide
    Fredrik Aldhagen , December 21, 2013 8:51 AM
    Quote:
    I'm not saying Intel or Windows is in this device (I know it's T4, which is why I pointed to another T4 device showing they already have OTHER devices at 1/2 of $800). I'm explaining why the price can be $399 like the example I provided. If you take a windows lic out of a device cost, and also remove Intel as your chip you end up being able to price things well under $800. That was my point. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

    What point am I missing by mentioning games?
    https://chrome.google.com/webstore/category/app/3-games
    Need for speed etc...


    Now, if you click Need for Speed World it says: "*Note: Client download and registration required. Runs on Windows platform only."

    That said, you can run HTML5 and flash-based games in Chrome OS. You even have Native Client, although that limits the game to x86 devices unless you make a specific ARM port or use PNaCl (which lacks vector and SIMD functionality)

    Quote:

    At some point android/chromeOS end up running the same stuff in some way shape or form IMHO (no dev wants even more platforms to develop for - I'm sure they want ONE game that runs on both). It may be a browser OS basically but that doesn't mean it will stay as a dumb cloud OS forever (with what seems to be cloud/browser games so far). I was talking T5 etc, so I'm speaking LONG term, not today. I'm not even sure I can't just take this home (as an IT guy who hacks everything I own basically...LOL) and install android today. I'm sure someone will root it etc shortly as I'm not a fan of ChromeOS due to all the limitations. I'm sure it's fine for some, and limiting to others like me. But my main point is how the hardware needs to match standards of today no matter what OS is on it in order to move the platforms forward. I would run into a needs that far surpass this device very quickly if not the day I buy it. I won't pay $400 to browse the web and get email ;)  If that makes me cheap, I'm ok with that...LOL. I want Android (or chromeOS, linux, maybe a dual or tri boot, or quad with steamos?...LOL) to put ARM in my desktop so MS/Intel will have something to FEAR. I don't want another win8 or haswell price increases on broadwell. AMD is too far behind on cpus to be a competitor now. We need ARM, and games on ARM to start a fire that leads to REAL apps on arm so 90% of us have an option other than WINTEL ;) 


    Now, if you want games on ARM then fine, you got Android (don't expect SteamOS on ARM, making a Linux version is small enough of a niche without involving other CPU architectures)

    Quote:
    This device reminds me of china/india specs or some poor 3rd world country specs. I could be wrong about what will run on it one day, but I wasn't really talking chrome, but more about the hardware and what I want in a cheap NON WINTEL device :)  In my family nothing really stays off the shelf for more than a 72hr burn-in if you get my drift...ROFL. I would fully expect to mod the device to do what I want and run what I want (currently android over chrome as it's not a product for me right now) not too long after it gets in the house. If I can't do that, I'll find a similar device that will allow it. I was kind of hoping my first Tegra device would extend my xbox360 so to speak (anything mobile for me would be tegra for tegrazone etc games). Games won't be made for xbox360/ps3 soon, and mobile will continue the good enough games to TV for me, plus out of the house gaming, and hopefully good streaming of Maxwell to TV next year. "Good Enough" gaming is all I call a console...Real PRETTY games are only on PC for me :)  I have no intention of supporting this gen.


    Look, if you want a powerful platform, there's x86. You can ditch Windows and run another OS if you like, but there's no other good option for high end CPUs. ARM is good for mobile devices, but they won't go towards the high end computing because there's no money for ARM there. It's the other way around, Intel trying to compete with ARM through their Atom CPUs.

    Quote:
    How will you ever get apps made for better hardware if we keep going back in time to smaller memory/storage requirements? Kit Kat for instance, brags about running on 512MB...That is not something I'd brag about with 64bit arm on the horizon. Great that it can do that, but I would have blocked the ability to install on anything below 2-3GB forcing people to move up.


    Using less memory means more is left for the games running on it. Telling people they have to buy a new tablet to use the new version could just as well kill it.

    Quote:
    Devs are waiting for consoles to sell 10mil before they jump on board. Even a big dev like Activision/Blizzard shows Bobby Kotick has fears of making something on next gen consoles as he watches for Q1 sales. It is no different here. Get the hardware out so you can get people to design for it.


    A lot of people don't want to jump onto a new console right away.

    Quote:
    Most won't take the risk on developing for something hoping one day you sell enough product to warrant the investment in new software and only a big dev can wait 5-7yrs to make a profit as more consoles sell. Why do you think Gran Turismo 6 was made for ps3 instead of ps4 by sony themselves? Same story. 90million units of ps3 are in houses, while ps4 just hit 2.4mil. But it's still failing...LOL. I'm guessing it's failing because of $150 jaguar xj13 etc...If I pay $60 for a game I should be done. Sony doesn't get it ;)  Sales off 80% from GT5...Yes I just did a cartwheel in my head...ROFL. Die consoles DIE! Sony/MS can die right along with them. Microtransactions in games need to die too.

    IF you want to one day run Adobe CS 7 (CS8, whatever) on ARM, we need some larger hardware footprints to sell to. Google has the ability with their OS to force larger memory, bigger storage etc just like MS does with windows.


    You talk so much about how much you hate Windows, yet you want Chrome OS to become just like it?

    Chrome OS is intended for low end devices (with the exception of Chromebook Pixel and a limited run Chromebox they all used either Intel Atom, Celeron or ARM CPUs) so what you're suggesting makes no sense.

    Quote:
    Sure I can hack an OS (so to speak) to install on less memory, but it won't go on normally due to software flags etc and hardware makers then ship with the minimum requirements (despite what I may do on my own with a /switch or something). A few more gigs doesn't break the bank but gets hardware seeded so devs follow with software that is actually productive past browsing/email. You know, keyboard/mouse stuff so when you're in the house there is a reason to hook these up with a 24in monitor (not this AIO, I mean phones, tablets etc). I want my tablet etc to be more than a dumb device with limited uses, which IMHO is what all chromebooks are today (great for old farts or kids, useless almost to me). I see the point in a $38 tablet (about to hit Q1 from India 1ghz dual core etc) for poor people that still aren't on the web etc, but I hate that devs will aim for such a low device instead of a 64bit arm soc with 8GB ram and an 80GB SSD or something :)  I want ARM/Android etc in WINTEL's face. We will get Win98/2000/xp/win7 then instead of ME/Fista/win8 and price hikes on Intel chips. I hope this explains where I'm coming from. Pretty much MORE POWER and competition. :)  A much more powerful device can be easily made for $30-100.


    I do agree with you that competition is good, and drives technology forwards.

    I don't think Android should attempt to take Windows place. (meanwhile MS is trying to go after Android/iOS with the Metro interface in Windows RT and Windows 8)

    If you want a powerful desktop operating system that isn't Windows, install Linux.
  • 0 Hide
    somebodyspecial , December 23, 2013 10:35 PM
    Quote:
    Quote:
    I'm not saying Intel or Windows is in this device (I know it's T4, which is why I pointed to another T4 device showing they already have OTHER devices at 1/2 of $800). I'm explaining why the price can be $399 like the example I provided. If you take a windows lic out of a device cost, and also remove Intel as your chip you end up being able to price things well under $800. That was my point. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

    What point am I missing by mentioning games?
    https://chrome.google.com/webstore/category/app/3-games
    Need for speed etc...


    Quote:

    Now, if you click Need for Speed World it says: "*Note: Client download and registration required. Runs on Windows platform only."

    That said, you can run HTML5 and flash-based games in Chrome OS. You even have Native Client, although that limits the game to x86 devices unless you make a specific ARM port or use PNaCl (which lacks vector and SIMD functionality)


    I might have clicked the wrong page but you get the point (I just did a quick check to illustrate the point). Games will get more advanced on it, it won't stay a dumb cloud OS forever. Why do you think MS is bringing mobile/desktop together? It makes no sense to split devs between platforms when you can unify them. I hate the way MS has done it so far but that doesn't mean I think it is a bad idea. Write once run everywhere is the goal for ALL. Period.

    Quote:

    At some point android/chromeOS end up running the same stuff in some way shape or form IMHO (no dev wants even more platforms to develop for - I'm sure they want ONE game/app that runs on both). It may be a browser OS basically but that doesn't mean it will stay as a dumb cloud OS forever (with what seems to be cloud/browser games so far). I was talking T5 etc, so I'm speaking LONG term, not today. I'm not even sure I can't just take this home (as an IT guy who hacks everything I own basically...LOL) and install android today. I'm sure someone will root it etc shortly as I'm not a fan of ChromeOS due to all the limitations. I'm sure it's fine for some, and limiting to others like me. But my main point is how the hardware needs to match standards of today no matter what OS is on it in order to move the platforms forward. I would run into a needs that far surpass this device very quickly if not the day I buy it. I won't pay $400 to browse the web and get email ;)  If that makes me cheap, I'm ok with that...LOL. I want Android (or chromeOS, linux, maybe a dual or tri boot, or quad with steamos?...LOL) to put ARM in my desktop so MS/Intel will have something to FEAR. I don't want another win8 or haswell price increases on broadwell. AMD is too far behind on cpus to be a competitor now. We need ARM, and games on ARM to start a fire that leads to REAL apps on arm so 90% of us have an option other than WINTEL ;) 

    Quote:

    Now, if you want games on ARM then fine, you got Android (don't expect SteamOS on ARM, making a Linux version is small enough of a niche without involving other CPU architectures)


    I fully expect SteamOS on arm at some point. Android is linux, IOS is unix. So just to be clear, linux already runs on ARM, so SteamOS is just a kernel stretch and a few drivers away from easily running on ARM. Selling games to 1.3B units this year (950mil phones, 350mil tablets), going to 2.5B by 2015-2016 doesn't seem NICHE to me and by default further serves Valves goal of destroying DirectX (games first, steam already has these, apps next) and in turn windows/windows store etc. You don't have to look long to see Gabe's hate for windows/windows store and pretty much all things MS these days (and also consoles, he's not a fan of them either). Gabe thinks longer term and knows his battle with MS is not a 1-2yr affair. It's more like 10yrs+. Android was NICHE 5yrs ago right? It was just released in 2007, but now is the largest OS user base on the planet by FAR.

    http://thenextweb.com/apps/2012/08/08/valve-plans-to-sell-apps-via-steam-ranging-from-creativity-to-productivity/#!qtkLb
    You start the war by leveraging what you already have (power to push steam games on PC's, you're not going to run crysis 3 on mobile yet right?...LOL - but kepler desktop now coming with T5-more power every year coming now), then move to apps and selling them on your store, then as power improves (as platforms hit 20nm/14nm etc) take on adding SteamOS to ARM. IF you destroy MS's cash cows by getting tons of games on linux (which are easily ported elsewhere), then tons of apps on it, it is far easier to shoehorn your way into ARM when power is there to run the stuff you're pushing. You've created enough reasons by then that many might be able to ditch windows/intel without reeling in pain ;)  You're thinking little picture, I'm talking the big picture.

    Quote:
    This device reminds me of china/india specs or some poor 3rd world country specs. I could be wrong about what will run on it one day, but I wasn't really talking chrome, but more about the hardware and what I want in a cheap NON WINTEL device :)  In my family nothing really stays off the shelf for more than a 72hr burn-in if you get my drift...ROFL. I would fully expect to mod the device to do what I want and run what I want (currently android over chrome as it's not a product for me right now) not too long after it gets in the house. If I can't do that, I'll find a similar device that will allow it. I was kind of hoping my first Tegra device would extend my xbox360 so to speak (anything mobile for me would be tegra for tegrazone etc games). Games won't be made for xbox360/ps3 soon, and mobile will continue the good enough games to TV for me, plus out of the house gaming, and hopefully good streaming of Maxwell to TV next year. "Good Enough" gaming is all I call a console...Real PRETTY games are only on PC for me :)  I have no intention of supporting this gen.


    Quote:

    Look, if you want a powerful platform, there's x86. You can ditch Windows and run another OS if you like, but there's no other good option for high end CPUs. ARM is good for mobile devices, but they won't go towards the high end computing because there's no money for ARM there. It's the other way around, Intel trying to compete with ARM through their Atom CPUs.


    LOOK (taking my comments personally or something?), I want a powerful platform that doesn't include WINTEL to compete with WINTEL. Why are you so hooked on x86? You work for Intel? :)  Even AMD is going ARM. Why do you think they're making SERVER ARM chips first (high margin niche products right? Aiming at just DATA CENTERs for now - really niche right? Though at 28nm as everyone goes 20nm Seattle won't take over the world)? I don't want apps being made for x86/windows and tied to them. Write once run anywhere lowers cost for devs and hopefully gets us better games because more can go to that rather than 5-10 ports everywhere. Understand? An entire armada of ARM is coming to HIGH END in 2015. There is no other good option for high-end TODAY, but there will be in 2015 and hopefully software will be there when the chips come (like adobe etc starting mobile crap - photoshop now out, very basic still but clearly a nod towards the future on ARM). Google "Denver Nvidia" "Boulder Nvidia", which should pull up many of the competing chips also (NV is one of 5-6 coming, arm, samsung, qcom etc all coming to your desktop - apple is trying to remove x86 and go TOTAL ARM for macs, notebooks, mobile etc...High end right?). If you think high-end is worthless why is Intel in servers, desktops & notebooks? Why does it make them 55Bil in revenues (cpus pretty much make most of that at Intel, add AMD cpu revenues also to this). If you don't think Arm is going after this you are ignoring the news for the last 3 years.

    Also note ARMH only has revenue of ~690mil TTM. Even Qcom only has revenue of ~$24.5Bil TTM (highest ever). Tell me again why all ARM players don't want to go after INTEL's 55Billion? You're not making sense. Both sides want each others pie. PERIOD.
    http://www.techpowerup.com/154357/arm-going-64-bit-to-compete-in-high-end-desktop-market.html
    Umm, clear back to 2011 we knew what ARM was doing and heading straight into desktops! Heck look at the title of the article "ARM Going 64-Bit To Compete In High-End Desktop Market"
    A title is worth 1000 words? I feel I could just end here...LOL I can point to a dozen of these probably over the last 2 years if not far more as we have far more info on ARM 64bit now and everyone planning to use it to get into desktops, servers etc.

    google this: desktop arm processor
    There is no mistaking ARM's intentions (the whole group using arm) and x86 has ~2x the revenues of ARM so ARM has more reasons to move into Intel's turf than the other way around. They are coming for your desktop, server and notebook (these first as they fit low power and low perf to some degree, which is just ARM leveraging what they already have to get a foothold).

    You seem unaware they are directly heading to your notebooks, desktops and servers where higher margins can be had. Socs sell for $25-40 and are 50-120mm, where Intel sells high margin chips at $200-$1000's as in thousands at basically ~261mm (richland is ~246 on AMD side, talking Intel GT3 here, main core is 177mm IIRC). If you speed up current top socs to 4ghz (like an intel/amd basically) and triple a T4 die size for example (80mm - so dedicating 3x transistors for cpu and gpu resources) you end up with a chip roughly Haswell/Trinity size. This would put ARM on par with Intel in desktops/servers. You can strip the gpu and pair an ARM pc with Nvidia discrete card at some point I'd say. I'm not quite sure why you don't understand x86's 380million units every year of VERY expensive chips vs. SOCS on mobile, is worth a LOT and ARM wants it (along with everyone in ARM's ecosystem). I feel like I'm repeating myself here and you're not getting it. Game devs have moved to Arm already (60% making mobile games, <15% planning console, ~12% planning next gen console), and apps are next as we see with Adobe. You start coding now so you're ready when 64bit ARM hits and lands in a 500-1000w desktop with Nvidia/AMD desktop gpus working at some point in it. We are just now getting more keyboards/mice/gamepads working on android. If you put a keyboard and mouse in my hands now I want apps on arm next. I want my mobile device to come home, dock and work like a PC. That is where we're headed (for most people). Until it happens we'll stream our desktop (or it's power) to other low power devices, but not forever.

    Also, note google is being rumored to produce their own ARM chips to remove Intel from their servers.
    http://blogs.barrons.com/techtraderdaily/2013/12/13/google-street-debates-possible-arm-push-threat-to-intel/?mod=barrons_msnhttp://online.barrons.com/article/BL-TB-42045.html?
    Designs suspected to be already underway.
    http://blogs.marketwatch.com/thetell/2013/12/13/why-google-making-its-own-chips-would-be-bad-news-for-intel/?mod=msn_money_ticker
    "Google would not directly address the report, but a spokeswoman told MarketWatch, “We are actively engaged in designing the world’s best infrastructure. This includes both hardware design, at all levels, and software design.”

    OK then...chips either made by you or for you are coming :)  They can partner with anyone for the fabric or whatever they're missing to complete the job. Facebook and Amazon etc won't be far behind. Open the floodgates ;) 

    Quote:
    How will you ever get apps made for better hardware if we keep going back in time to smaller memory/storage requirements? Kit Kat for instance, brags about running on 512MB...That is not something I'd brag about with 64bit arm on the horizon. Great that it can do that, but I would have blocked the ability to install on anything below 2-3GB forcing people to move up.


    Quote:

    Using less memory means more is left for the games running on it. Telling people they have to buy a new tablet to use the new version could just as well kill it.

    Not with people buying 350mil/year already and a billion smartphones. People replace these yearly already (don't care why, it happens, dropped etc) or you couldn't sell this many. I don't know anyone with a mobile phone over 3yrs old (except me...LOL). I know PC people with a 7yr+ old pc. It will be far easier for them to get us on 64bit arm than it was for Intel/AMD to migrate us to 64bit. In 4yrs or so everyone will have 64bit ARM in hand (I'd say less but am saving you from jumping on me again...LOL - true in the end no matter how long it takes everyone will have it). Mobile cycle is much faster and its far cheaper to create a mobile chip than x86 (10-20mil for masking etc, far cheaper than x86). I didn't say it was bad to run in a small footprint. You're missing the point again (see bold above). You're saying that charging an extra $10-20 for 3GB vs. 1GB will cause sales to crumble? ROFL. Not even sure it's that much of a difference today with samsung shipping single 3GB lpddr3 now for mobile and phones already using it.
    http://www.isuppli.com/Teardowns/News/Pages/Groundbreaking-iPhone5s-Carries-199-BOM-and-Manufacturing-Cost-IHS-Teardown-Reveals.aspx
    1GB in apple's iphone5 is $11. So I think we're talking 3GB for $10 or less above the $11 probably. This won't kill sales and allows devs to work with 3GB instead of 1GB no matter how much the OS uses. You're missing that point I guess. How long do you want to live with apps made to run in 1GB of memory? I want devs aiming MUCH higher even if the OS runs in 64KB...LOL. Which would be great BTW for an OS and I have no problem with that, my problem is what you do with the rest of what is left and if it's so cheap to give my WHY NOT advance this? If it was a $150 difference from 1GB to 3GB ok...Wait until it gets cheap enough to be doable. But that isn't the case. Heck a Nintendo 3DS is made for $110. WOW. The entire iphone is ~$200.

    Quote:
    Devs are waiting for consoles to sell 10mil before they jump on board. Even a big dev like Activision/Blizzard shows Bobby Kotick has fears of making something on next gen consoles as he watches for Q1 sales. It is no different here. Get the hardware out so you can get people to design for it.

    Quote:

    A lot of people don't want to jump onto a new console right away.

    Who are we talking about? The devs won't jump because you don't know if you will EVER have someone to sell to. See wiiu sales, software sales, and projections, do the same for Vita - neither has crossed 10mil. Now google GDC 2013 survey (euro & usa-2800 devs)- NOBODY cares about these, nobody developing games for either, except sony/nintendo. Customers don't jump until games are there. See how that works? No hardware unit sales=no devs making games=no end users buying for the games that don't exist :)  Why did everyone run to mobile? 1Billion units sold yearly, going to 2.5B 2015/2016 vs. <300mil consoles sold TOTAL Nin/Sony/MS all 3 combined in 7yrs vs. 384mil PC's sold (and a lot go to business-so if making a game today, I wouldn't be anywhere but mobile). Mobile will hit 2B units before x86 hits 400mil most likely. Where would you go? MOBILE.

    Quote:
    Most won't take the risk on developing for something hoping one day you sell enough product to warrant the investment in new software and only a big dev can wait 5-7yrs to make a profit as more consoles sell. Why do you think Gran Turismo 6 was made for ps3 instead of ps4 by sony themselves? Same story. 90million units of ps3 are in houses, while ps4 just hit 2.4mil. But it's still failing...LOL. I'm guessing it's failing because of $150 jaguar xj13 etc...If I pay $60 for a game I should be done. Sony doesn't get it ;)  Sales off 80% from GT5...Yes I just did a cartwheel in my head...ROFL. Die consoles DIE! Sony/MS can die right along with them. Microtransactions in games need to die too.

    IF you want to one day run Adobe CS 7 (CS8, whatever) on ARM, we need some larger hardware footprints to sell to. Google has the ability with their OS to force larger memory, bigger storage etc just like MS does with windows.

    Quote:

    You talk so much about how much you hate Windows, yet you want Chrome OS to become just like it?

    Chrome OS is intended for low end devices (with the exception of Chromebook Pixel and a limited run Chromebox they all used either Intel Atom, Celeron or ARM CPUs) so what you're suggesting makes no sense.


    When did I say I hated windows? You're putting words in my mouth. I don't like Win8 (I'm not alone...LOL), don't like MS prices staying the same or UP for 15yrs while every other piece of the PC goes down massively, don't like Intel prices that have went up etc. I'm saying I don't like no competition getting us crap OS's now and higher Intel pricing. I don't think Intel's chips suck, just the price. I don't think windows sucks, just the direction and MS control over my apps/games along with a little pricing hate. Again, you seem to be missing the whole point of the post (better stuff on another platform, causing competition and better stuff/pricing from WINTEL). I'm assuming both MS/Intel survive, but they will be much nicer after the war. Make no mistake, I do want both knocked down a few pegs though ;) 

    Quote:
    Sure I can hack an OS (so to speak) to install on less memory, but it won't go on normally due to software flags etc and hardware makers then ship with the minimum requirements (despite what I may do on my own with a /switch or something). A few more gigs doesn't break the bank but gets hardware seeded so devs follow with software that is actually productive past browsing/email. You know, like keyboard/mouse stuff so when you're in the house there is a reason to hook these up with a 24in monitor (not this AIO, I mean phones, tablets etc). I want my tablet etc to be more than a dumb device with limited uses, which IMHO is what all chromebooks are today (great for old farts or kids, useless almost to me). I see the point in a $38 tablet (about to hit Q1 from India 1ghz dual core etc) for poor people that still aren't on the web etc, but I hate that devs will aim for such a low device instead of a 64bit arm soc with 8GB ram and an 80GB SSD or something :)  I want ARM/Android etc in WINTEL's face. We will get Win98/2000/xp/win7 then instead of ME/Fista/win8 and price hikes on Intel chips. I hope this explains where I'm coming from. Pretty much MORE POWER and competition. :)  A much more powerful device can be easily made for $30-100.


    I do agree with you that competition is good, and drives technology forwards.

    I don't think Android should attempt to take Windows place. (meanwhile MS is trying to go after Android/iOS with the Metro interface in Windows RT and Windows 8)

    If you want a powerful desktop operating system that isn't Windows, install Linux.


    Finally you reverse the sort of ARM hate (you seem really reluctant to get off Wintel's tit), and get it :)  I don't really have hate for Wintel (strong dislike maybe of how they are treating us these days? Probably), just want competition for them to grow. Chips used to cost $200 for junk, and $1000 for top end, but now I can buy a chip for $25-100 easily (with a gpu on a lot of them) and top Intel i7 4770 is only $340 now (though up $40 now from ivy). Why is Office pro key $400 still? Why is Windows still $300 (not talking oem, just a retail point here)? Enter competition. Hmm, now talking price drops on RT already clear back to june 2013 and as of 2 weeks ago pondering FREE windows phone licenses ;)  I would install linux but it has the same problem as android. Not much REAL stuff is there yet, but steamos will help with games (possibly apps in a few years for linux in more massive numbers), and android will help some with games and apps too. Maybe a dual/tri boot of linux/steamos/android pulls off a replacement of windows in the future. Clearly not now, but I think 5-10yrs down the road rather than next week. As a consumer I will be better served by MS/Google at each others throats for 10yrs ;)  Though if MS decides to continue to go against us, making my OS far less usable by slowing me down, more clicks to get to the same stuff etc, I won't shed a tear if they end up like rimm. Metro would be OK if I could completely disable it and basically have Win7 with Win8's good stuff on top, though I don't see much in win8 that is good.

    Basic PC's used to be $800-1000. Now I can get a laptop for $350 (and a great one for $800-900) and even a pretty decent gaming PC for $500...LOL. But windows and office are still the same? Monopolies breed this crap. Bring on anything (linux, steamOS, android, chromeOS etc, or any combo of these in dual/tri boots etc) that brings windows/office back to reality. I want both for $50 each :)  But would be happy at $100 for full blown copies vs. where we are now. I need more than outlook/word, that's not full, and home editions of windows aren't either. And with features I WANT, rather than what bill gates etc thinks I need. I'm sure I'll have "HATE" :)  for google one day as they are even now beginning to do what they want, not so much what I LIKE these days (with search I mean, among other things). They are certainly slightly more evil today than 5yrs ago. I could go on but you get the point I hope.

    A good hockey player plays where the puck is. A great hockey player plays where the puck is going to be.

    Wayne Gretzky

    Quick looking at TODAY. Look at the last 5yrs, and start thinking about where we'll be in 2018-2019. What will 10nm do to a soc's power? How will 64bit (already in iphone which sped up everyone's plans on mobile) be on mobile in 5yrs? In 5yrs will my phone/tablet have 6-8GB of ram or more? That's just two $20 samsung modules even at todays size (between 20-30nm said toms). I'm sure at 14nm/10nm these may become 1 module, or at least brings this bill down to $30 total for 6GB. I'm thinking 6GB is norm at 14nm, and 8-12GB at 10nm.

    My comments are where the puck will be soon, not today ;)  I'm not saying the PC will die, but it is morphing at the least, and I don't believe it will be a WINTEL monopoly shortly. I say you are looking at a different world for these two in 5yrs or less as we already see adobe etc inching to mobile and games are going to be there in droves next xmas with 60% making something for them right now. GDC 2014 will show higher than 60% making mobile I'd guess and depending on Q1 console sales (GDC 2014 in march IIRC), we may see a smaller than ~12% planning anything for consoles, which may cause a PC rise above 40% also. Yes I'm crossing my fingers but really see it as a foregone conclusion.

    WOW, should have cut out a lot of this, but oh well...Most are done reading this thread anyway :) 
  • 0 Hide
    JD88 , December 23, 2013 10:40 PM
    Chrome OS just took a big chunk out of Microsoft's commercial business:

    http://www.pcworld.com/article/2082310/chromebooks-charge-into-business-market-capture-20-of-commercial-notebooks.html

    Ouch...
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