AMD Dishes on Zen 3 and Zen 4 Architecture, Milan and Genoa Roadmap

(Image credit: AMD)
Paul Alcorn
Editor-in-Chief

Paul Alcorn is the Editor-in-Chief for Tom's Hardware US. He also writes news and reviews on CPUs, storage, and enterprise hardware.

  • bit_user
    It's so kind of them to show us when the tapeouts are. I'm surprised that even got put into a slide.

    For those who don't know, "tape-out" is when the design is first sent to the fab. Between that and production, you have a couple respins, with probably the later ones serving as engineering samples for board partners.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tape-out
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  • Gillerer
    I disagree about the sweeping statement of "eliminating one layer of latency within the compute die".The only situation where that happens is if you only have one compute die (CCD), since that will then no longer have multiple CCXes, so the latency layer of inter-CCX communication is removed.

    If you have multiple CCDs, communication between cores on them will still make a hop by the I/O die, just as between two CCXes do on Zen 2 (even if they're physically located on the same CCD). Even though the higher latency is incurred less frequently (since there are now 7 neighboring cores instead of 3), it is by no means "eliminated".

    Also, the fact that you double the L3 cache accessible to each core - and therefore less likely to have to go to system memory - doesn't remove any latency layers, just alters the chances of hitting them.
    The place I would anticipate the most advancement is from combining the Infinity Fabric links of two CCXes into a single link. This could give a single core double the memory and I/O throughput (to the I/O die), as long as there is little contention for the resources with other cores.
    EDIT: I stand corrected. It seems I had misunderstood this - getting a couple of terms mixed - when I first read about Ryzen 3000 during launch. The text I remembered was referring to intra-package, not intra-die communication (lack of direct links between CCDs). Shouldn't read technical material quickly...
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  • bit_user
    Gillerer said:
    between two CCXes do on Zen 2 (even if they're physically located on the same CCD).
    Huh? So, even between two CCX's on the same die, you still have a round-trip to the I/O die? That kinda sucks.
    Reply
  • Paul Alcorn
    There is an infinity fabric connection between the two CCX within a single die/chiplet. Much like you see in the graphic in the link below. (The infinity symbol between these two CCX denotes that connection.) Two CCXes on a single die communicate across that fabric via this intra-die connection, essentially you have two quad-core CPUs talking to each other. The problem comes in when you have to hop to other die. https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/amd-ccx-definition-cpu-core-explained,6338.html
    Reply
  • bit_user
    PaulAlcorn said:
    There is an infinity fabric connection between the two CCX within a single die/chiplet.
    Big thanks! That seems much more energy- & latency- efficient.

    One reason I want an APU is to have only one CCX. I'm trying to get a Ryzen 5 Pro 3400G.
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  • hannibal
    bit_user said:
    Big thanks! That seems much more energy- & latency- efficient.

    One reason I want an APU is to have only one CCX. I'm trying to get a Ryzen 5 Pro 3400G.

    You mean ryzen 4400g... Because 3400G is old Zen+ technology aka monolith architecture. Or do you mean that you want to get both cpu and gpu in one die. Then the 3400g is way to go! Zen2 Apus comes (maybe) next year.
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  • bit_user
    hannibal said:
    You mean ryzen 4400g... Because 3400G is old Zen+ technology aka monolith architecture.
    Right now, I want a Ryzen 5 Pro 3400G. They were just announced. Pro version, because it's for a small file server and I want ECC memory, which the non-Pro APUs don't support.

    The reasons I want an APU are:
    cost
    I only need 4 cores
    1 CCX = better & more-efficient inter-core communication
    avoid the need for a separate GPU - the machine mostly runs headless.
    hannibal said:
    Zen2 Apus comes (maybe) next year.
    As it's replacing a Phenom II, Zen+ will be a fine upgrade.
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  • djayjp
    "The largely unchanged specifications, at least in key areas, implies Milan is merely a "Tock"-equivalent, or just a move to the second-gen of the 7nm node (7nm+)."

    You mean "tick": Intel's tock involved a significant microarchitectural change.
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  • hannibal
    bit_user said:
    Right now, I want a Ryzen 5 Pro 3400G. They were just announced. Pro version, because it's for a small file server and I want ECC memory, which the non-Pro APUs don't support.

    As it's replacing a Phenom II, Zen+ will be a fine upgrade.

    Yeah! In your cace it definily is a good choise!
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  • bit_user
    djayjp said:
    "The largely unchanged specifications, at least in key areas, implies Milan is merely a "Tock"-equivalent, or just a move to the second-gen of the 7nm node (7nm+)."
    It'll be interesting to see what EUV does, for TSMC's 7 nm.

    djayjp said:
    You mean "tick": Intel's tock involved a significant microarchitectural change.
    Really? I kinda thought the whole tick-tock thing started with Sandybridge. Ivy Bridge was mostly just a node-shrink. So, then ticks should be the bigger architectural changes.

    Also, people like to joke that Intel's scheme, since Skylake, has been tick-tock-tock-tock-tock...
    Reply