Sandisk and SK hynix join forces to standardize High Bandwidth Flash memory, a NAND-based alternative to HBM for AI GPUs — Move could enable 8-16x higher capacity compared to DRAM

Sandisk's HBF memory concept
(Image credit: SanDisk)
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Hassam Nasir
Contributing Writer

Hassam Nasir is a die-hard hardware enthusiast with years of experience as a tech editor and writer, focusing on detailed CPU comparisons and general hardware news. When he’s not working, you’ll find him bending tubes for his ever-evolving custom water-loop gaming rig or benchmarking the latest CPUs and GPUs just for fun.

  • we_are_theBorg
    Oh great.... I'm sure all the big AI hardware vendors are salivating at the idea of inserting a NAND write endurance based death clock in to all of their new products... good luck picking these up on the secondary market,

    Fantastic.

    Ironically this is where something like Optane would be perfect. Higher density than DRAM, lower latency than NAND, massive write endurance. Cost premium insensitive. Hello Intel, get your butt off the floor and figure out the licensing!
    Reply
  • deesider
    we_are_theBorg said:
    Oh great.... I'm sure all the big AI hardware vendors are salivating at the idea of inserting a NAND write endurance based death clock in to all of their new products... good luck picking these up on the secondary market,

    Fantastic.

    Ironically this is where something like Optane would be perfect. Higher density than DRAM, lower latency than NAND, massive write endurance. Cost premium insensitive. Hello Intel, get your butt off the floor and figure out the licensing!
    I think it's all too easy to view Optane through rose-coloured glasses, and ignore the issues that prevented it from becoming successful - namely high power usage, and lack of scalability rather than miss-management.

    - The high power usage prevented it from being used in most consumer devices, which are largely power-sensitive laptops and phones.

    - The lack of scalability seems to be due to either fabrication or design limitations that prevent it from being layered like conventional NAND. Being able to fabricate dozens of layers of NAND at once was a major breakthrough that finally provided relatively cheap SSDs. It seems that wasn't possible with Optane, either due to its design (which may also be why it operates so much faster) or it could be impractical to have that many layers of a temperature sensitive material crammed together.

    A good comparison would be plasma TVs. They were still the benchmark for picture quality for at least 5 years after production was ceased, but ultimately, despite the advantages, were a dead-end technology - more expensive to manufacture than LCDs, and the cells couldn't be made small enough for 4k resolution - which apparently was what the market demanded.
    Reply
  • KryptonQuark
    Hardware Vendors are surprised ! ! !
    Reply
  • we_are_theBorg
    deesider said:
    I think it's all too easy to view Optane through rose-coloured glasses, and ignore the issues that prevented it from becoming successful - namely high power usage, and lack of scalability rather than miss-management.

    - The high power usage prevented it from being used in most consumer devices, which are largely power-sensitive laptops and phones.

    - The lack of scalability seems to be due to either fabrication or design limitations that prevent it from being layered like conventional NAND. Being able to fabricate dozens of layers of NAND at once was a major breakthrough that finally provided relatively cheap SSDs. It seems that wasn't possible with Optane, either due to its design (which may also be why it operates so much faster) or it could be impractical to have that many layers of a temperature sensitive material crammed together.

    A good comparison would be plasma TVs. They were still the benchmark for picture quality for at least 5 years after production was ceased, but ultimately, despite the advantages, were a dead-end technology - more expensive to manufacture than LCDs, and the cells couldn't be made small enough for 4k resolution - which apparently was what the market demanded.
    I appreciate your point on Optane power density. Still, in this case I feel like this application is one where that and the density issue (which I did address) are not deal breakers in this application, while the latency benefits and write endurance are very relevant.

    In the end it's moot, of course. That ship has sailed. Maybe UltraRAM will save us.

    My fundamental point is to be wary of any technology that adds an intrinsic death clock to devices that should be in the infrastructure category instead of the consumables category. "My GPU has run out of write endurance" is not something consumers or IT budget managers should be cool with.
    Reply